On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 4:03 AM Thomas Walter <b...@fh-muenster.de> wrote:
> Hey Brandon, > > On 19.04.19 23:31, Brandon Long via mailop wrote: > > For one, when you're only solution is to reject, the only way to get a > > signal that you're rejecting the mail wrong is manual review, which is > > impractical at best, and difficult to correlate with the opinion of the > > actual receiver. The spam/not spam signal from users is the best > > information you have on what your users want, even if the bad actors try > > to game the signal and a lot of user's use it as a hammer instead of the > > softer touch. > > you are forgetting that users are stupid. As I've mentioned before I > have to deal with abuse messages daily because users press "Junk" > instead of "Delete" buttons. They don't understand the difference > between "Junk" and "Trash" or they sort a regular mail response to junk > because they don't like the answer they get. > You're welcome to think your users are stupid. Its not a great way to keep users. They do what they do for very good reasons, and some of those reasons may not correspond to how you want them to act. There's various things you can do to try and change them, or change the product. Complaining is great for commiserating, but doesn't help your product. > The second is that it is impractical to ascertain whether a message is > > spam or not during delivery time in all cases. A decade ago, the reason > > was because we had to OCR images contained in power point presentation > > spam, now there are services where anti-malware services are opening > > Word files on clean VMs, or anti-phishing/malware where the service has > > to follow each link through a headless web browser with full javascript > > running. > > Why not get the message, give the sender a proper "please come again > later", do OCR or whatever resource intensive scanning and allow or > block the file based on a hash the next time it comes in? > How long til the message comes through again? RFC 5321 says to wait at least 30 minutes, do you think your enterprise users want to wait at 30 minutes for the message? Worst thing I have seen were mails that got moved to spam out of my > inbox where I had seen them before - and suddenly they were just gone. > Yes, that's a pretty terrible user experience, not one you should be seeing at Gmail at least. > Even without these things, often we aren't sure that something's spam, > > so we rely on the folks always checking their email and clicking spam to > > inform us on messages we've already received but haven't been looked at > yet. > > > > Those also mean, there's no saying its rejected even if we put the > > message in the spam folder. > > You guys probably don't have to deal with the "but where is my mail" - > "did you check the spam folder" support tickets? If a mail gets properly > rejected, the sender - who is the one that wants his mail to be > delivered into the recipients inbox - knows something is wrong and can > try again, contact the recipient in a different way or ask his > postmaster to look into it (who has nice logs of the event). > GSuite admins also have nice logs of what happens. And "where is my email" is one of our number one issues, I had a lot of intensive ideas on trying to work on that, but it turns out the answers to that question are lot wider than you might think... and also unfortunately, enough people now think of email as unreliable, and so people claim to not receive messages they actually did receive, which just adds even more fun to the whole thing. Brandon
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