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Dear Jens, It's 7448 islands in the Franco-Italian redaction of the _Divisament dou Monde_ (ed. Gabriella Ronchi, Milan, 1982; exists in only one complete MS generally dated around 1300). Though I don't have the edition to hand, an old note informs me that 7448 is also the number given in the only modern edition of Francesco Pipino's Latin translation (ed. Prasek, 1902), which was the text's most widely-diffused version. The number is very vulnerable to change both between manuscripts and between versions -- as others have noted -- though it generally seems to be 7 thousand and-something-or-other. Dr Marianne O'Doherty Lecturer in English University of Southampton Room 2041, Avenue Campus, Highfield, Southampton, SO17 8BF 02380 594534 m.o'[email protected] ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] [[email protected]] Sent: 28 September 2010 11:00 To: [email protected] Subject: Maphist Digest, Vol 61, Issue 28 Send Maphist mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Maphist digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Marco Polo's islands in Muenster (Jason Hubbard) 2. Re: M?nster Map of America (Richard Raiswell) 3. Re: Article wanted (Gregson 1962) (Vladimiro Valerio) 4. Re: M?nster Map of America (Robert Putman) 5. Re: Article wanted (Gregson 1962) (Susan Ford) 6. Re: Article wanted (Gregson 1962) (Vladimiro Valerio) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:10:46 +0200 From: "Jason Hubbard" <[email protected]> Subject: [MapHist] RE: Marco Polo's islands in Muenster To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <a718745bea9d474486f744416e056...@jasonhubbardpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Jens: [From the Encylop?dia Britannica, 15th edition) The known history of Marco Polo?s Il milione is that it was dictated to one Rustichello (or Rusticiano), ?a fairly well-known writer of romances,? when in a Genoese prison sometime after his return to Venice in 1295. ?Since all of this happened well before the invention of printing, professional scribes or amateurs made dozens of copies of the book... In fact, an authentic and original copy of Il milione does not exist; there are some 140 different manuscript versions of the text, in a dozen different languages and dialects...? Apparently Marco Polo himself also made a number of corrections and additions in the two decades before his death in 1324. It is clear that Polo did not travel to Japan but described it as he remembered hearing about it when in the court of Kublai Khan. In The Travels of Marco Polo [The Venetian]... edited by Manuel Komroff (New York, 1926), the text matches that in your email, ?...it contains no fewer than seven thousand four hundred and forty islands, mostly inhabited.? The same number is used in the Introduction of The History of Japan by Engelbert K?mpfer, (London, 1727). However, if you consult The Book of Ser Marco Polo the Venetian... edited by Sir Henry Yule (London, 1929), the same passage reads as follows: ? ...according to what is said by the experienced pilots and mariners of those parts, there be 7459 Islands in the waters frequented by the said mariners; and that is how they know the fact...? I suppose that the number ?7448? must have been in one or more of the hundreds of manuscript versions circulating at the time when M?nster was drawing his map. As an aside, Stanford?s Compendium of Geography and Travel, based on Hellwald?s ?Die Erde und Ihre V?lker?, London, 1882, states in the opening paragraph on Japan that: ?It... stretches in an almost continuous chain across 26 degrees of latitude... for a total length of about 1800 miles, and consists of about 4,000 islands of all sizes.? It all depends on when (and where) you stop counting... Jason Hubbard Dear Maphists, My M|nster map of America ?Die Ne|wen Inseln/ so hinder Hispanien gegen Orient/ bey dem Landt Indie ligen (sic)? close to the island of ZIPANGRI indicates that there are 7448 islands. I understood this to be based on information from Marco Polo. He, however, clearly states ?no fewer than? 7440 islands. (Book 3, chapter 4, Of the Sea of China?etc). Is there an explanation for this discrepancy? Jens Bornholt ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:51:09 -0300 From: "Richard Raiswell" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MapHist] M?nster Map of America To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" I would suggest that this would be a function of the printing or MS of Polo he was using, for it is hard to argue that there was a standard Marco Polo for the period. Moreover, even if he was using a printed edition, different copies vary within the same print run are not always the same, as corrections were made to the type plates as the printed pages came off the press. Finally, the difference you're describing could easily be the result of a misreading or a smudge on the paper/vellum--a "0" going into an "8" is not hard to imagine. Best, Richard Raiswell Richard Raiswell Dept. of History, Univ. of PEI Fellow, Centre for Reformation and Reanissance Studies, Toronto CONFIDENTIAL | CONFIDENTIEL This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged information. Please contact the sender immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. | Ce message contient des renseignements qui peuvent ?tre confidentiels ou prot?g?s. Il s'adresse au destinataire pr?vu ou ? une personne autoris?e ? le recevoir en son nom. Si vous l'avez re?u par erreur, nous vous prions d'en informer l'auteur dans les meilleurs d?lais, de ne pas divulguer son contenu et de le supprimer de votre syst?me. >>> "Jens Bornholt" 09/26/10 7:48 PM >>> This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Message Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2169 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maphist/attachments/20100927/6d3a0bb4/Message-0001.obj ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:12:23 +0200 From: Vladimiro Valerio <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MapHist] Article wanted (Gregson 1962) To: Discussion group for map history <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 for it might be of general interest I give to the list the private response to a message by Robles Macias. Dear Dr. Robles Macias, I have seen the article by Snyder it (J.P. Snyder, Navigation, vol. 2, n?1, March 1949, pp.2 ? 5): TERRIBLE! It is uneasy to understand even to me, teacher of Projective Geometry! Horrifying!!!! We have to take in mind that Snyder was a geodesist and a mathematician not a geometer. I use a very simple method which allows in one hour or less to draw any kind of gnomonic meridian projection. If you use autocad or a graphic software the grid is perfect and you may freely use it for any purpose. I use a double Mongian (orthogonal) projection fo the sphere covered with meridian and parallels at the distance I like (5?, 10?, 15 . . .) and than project the sphere and the grid into a chosen oblique plane. From the double intersection I have the exact position of any point of the grid. Meridians and Equator are obviously straight lines while the parallels are ellipses, one parabola, and hyperbolae. As the method of taking projections (not geographical ones but perspective projections) was known also to Piero della Francesca, it is easily believable that in the XVII century scientist might know it and use it. Ancient people was not so stupid to waste their time in complicated and absurd construction as we do today. Come to Venice. ciao vladimiro _______________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > Maphist mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > > <Snyder_1949_GraphicalConstructionGnomonic.pdf> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 08:24:10 +0200 From: Robert Putman <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MapHist] M?nster Map of America To: Discussion group for map history <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maphist/attachments/20100927/3bcda1e1/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:06:04 +1000 From: Susan Ford <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MapHist] Article wanted (Gregson 1962) To: Discussion group for map history <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Luis The NLA (National library of Australia) holds this journal and as I was there today I have copied and emailed the article you wanted - though Vladimiro's comments on how to do it in Autocad are probably much more relevant! And surprising, as Autocad I presume was not written directly to support cartography. Regards Susan PhD candidate Classics The Australian National University ----- Original Message ----- From: Luis Angel Robles Macias <[email protected]> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:40 am Subject: [MapHist] Article wanted (Gregson 1962) To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're > replying to the whole list) > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + > o + o + o + > Dear Maphisters, I am trying to obtain the following short article published in 1962: Title: A method of plotting meridians and parallels on the Gnomonic projection Author: R.J. Gregson Journal: CARTOGRAPHY Volume: 4 Issue: 4 Pages: 155-156 My university library has requested it, unsuccessfully, to the following libraries: ? Australian National University Library ? Library of Congress ? British Library ? Bodleian Library As far as I have been able to gather, this ?Cartography? journal was an Australian publication with ISSN 0069-0805. A few years ago it merged with ?The Australian Surveyor?, giving as a result the "Journal of Spatial Science", ISSN 1449-8596. I would greatly appreciate if somebody could provide some indication regarding the location or contents of this article. Best regards, Luis A. Robles Mac?as > _______________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the > University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any > responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > Maphist mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maphist/attachments/20100928/2eda3db4/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:24:02 +0200 From: Vladimiro Valerio <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MapHist] Article wanted (Gregson 1962) To: Discussion group for map history <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Susan, Autocad is (also) a sort of ruler, pencil and compass (a drawing set, in sum) drive by a computer. If you like to draw a perfect square, unlikely to be done by hand, autocad, archicad, Adobe Illustrator and a great deal of graphic softwares allow you to do it. May you send a copy of the paper also to me? Many thanks. vladimiro Il giorno 28/set/2010, alle ore 11.06, Susan Ford ha scritto: > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the > whole list) > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + > > Luis > > The NLA (National library of Australia) holds this journal and as I was there > today I have copied and emailed the article you wanted - though Vladimiro's > comments on how to do it in Autocad > are probably much more relevant! And surprising, as Autocad I presume was not > written directly to support cartography. > > Regards > > Susan > PhD candidate Classics > The Australian National University > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Luis Angel Robles Macias <[email protected]> > Date: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:40 am > Subject: [MapHist] Article wanted (Gregson 1962) > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > > > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're > > replying to the whole list) > > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + > > o + o + o + > > > Dear Maphisters, > > I am trying to obtain the following short article published in 1962: > > Title: A method of plotting meridians and parallels on the Gnomonic projection > > Author: R.J. Gregson > > Journal: CARTOGRAPHY > > Volume: 4 > > Issue: 4 > > Pages: 155-156 > > > My university library has requested it, unsuccessfully, to the following > libraries: > > ? Australian National University Library > > ? Library of Congress > > ? British Library > > ? Bodleian Library > > > As far as I have been able to gather, this ?Cartography? journal was an > Australian publication with ISSN 0069-0805. A few years ago it merged with > ?The Australian Surveyor?, giving as a result the "Journal of Spatial > Science", ISSN 1449-8596. > > I would greatly appreciate if somebody could provide some indication > regarding the location or contents of this article. > > > Best regards, > > Luis A. Robles Mac?as > > > _______________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the > > University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any > > responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > > > Maphist mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > Maphist mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Maphist mailing list [email protected] http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist End of Maphist Digest, Vol 61, Issue 28 *************************************** _______________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. 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