This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the 
whole list)
o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o +

For any & all MapHisters who followed my recent debate with Giulio about a lost Roman survey of the world, supposedly conducted from 44-7 BCE --

I just yesterday learned that a modern Eng. translation of William of Rubruck's travelogue (written in 1255 for King Louis IX of France) was done by William Woodville Rockhill (formerly of the Royal Geographical Society) and printed in 1900:

        Ruysbroek, Willem van.  _The journey of William of Rubruck to
        the eastern parts of the world, 1253-55. As narrated by
        himself, with two accounts of the earlier journey of John of
        Pian de Carpine. Translated from the Latin, and edited, with
        an introductory notice, by William Woodville Rockhill,
        Honorary Corresponding Member of the Royal Geographical
        Society_.  London: Printed for the Hakluyt Society, MDCCCC.

The entire text of Rockhill's edn., along with his generally strong "Introductory Notice", is available online (in multiple formats) from the Internet Archive at:

http://www.archive.org/details/journeywilliamr01ruysgoog


I also want to point out that Rockhill identifies the "Isidore" of Friar William's MS. differently than did I.

Rockhill believes that William's "Isidore" refers to the 6th-century scholar, Isidore of Seville:

        "Study of [Friar William's] narrative shows his careful
        preparation for his work as an explorer. Solinus and Isidorus
        of Seville are, it is true, his only geographical
        authorities; still he makes careful use of them, not quoting
        them blindly, but comparing every statement of theirs with
        the facts as he observed them...." (xxxvi)

And here I'm going to bow to Rockhill's research and authority, which is considerable. E.g., his summary statement of William's contributions to European science attests to that:

        "Let us now note what Friar William was able to add by his
        journey and careful observations to Europe's sum of general
        and geographical knowledge. His principal contributions to
        geographical science were the indication of the true sources
        and course of the Don and Volga, the lake nature of the
        Caspian[n1], the identity of Cathay with the classical
        country of the Seres, a description of the Balkash and of the
        inland basin of which it occupies the eastern extremity, the
        first description of the city of Karakorum, the first mention
        of Kaoli or Korea, and of the Tungusic tribes of Orengai, the
        *Orienguts* of mediaeval Mohammedan writers. Natural history
        owes to him the earliest mention in western writers of the
        wild ass or *kulan* and of the *argali* or *ovis Poli*.
        Ethnology is indebted to him for interesting facts too
        numerous to mention. To him linguistics and anthropology owe
        the first accurate information on the Goths of the Crimean
        coast, on the identity of the Comans with the Kipchak, Turks
        and Cangle, on the difference between the Tartars and the
        Mongols, on the connexity of the languages of the Bashkirds
        (*Pascatir*) and the Hungarians, on the origin of the
        Danubian Bulgarians, on the affinity between the languages of
        the Russians, Poles, Bohemians and Slavs and that of the
        Wandals, and on that of the Turkish language with that of the
        Uigurs and Comans. He was the first to give a nearly accurate
        explanation of the Chinese script, to note the true
        peculiarities of the Tibetan, Tangutan (Turkish), and Uigur
        modes of writing. These discoveries in this special line of
        research are not all we owe to this most perspicacious
        traveller; but I will not prolong the list, as we have a
        number of other important ones in the field of the history of
        religions to credit him with. He was the first to describe
        the Christian communities in the Mongol empire, and to give
        details of their rituals and the tenets of their faith; we
        owe to him the earliest descripition of the Lamas or northern
        Buddhist monks, of their temples, their ritual, their Living
        Buddhas, of their use of prayer beads, and of their favourite
        formula, *Om mani padme, hum*. He shows the peculiarities of
        the Uigurs' form of worship, and likewise of their dress.
        Peculiarities and superstitions of the Greek and Armenian
        churches did not escape him; in short, no one traveller since
        his day has done half so much to give a correct knowledge of
        this part of Asia." (xxxvii-xxxviii)

        NOTE 1: "Albert of Bollstaedt had at about the same date
        stated that the Caspian was a lake, not a gulf, but he had
        simply accepted the views of Ptolemy. The fact had already
        been established by the Arab geographers of the tenth century
        -- by Ibn Haukal for example -- but Europe was in ignorance of
        this."

As usual, my own interest in Friar William's travelogue recounting his 1253-1255 journey to the Mongol court has little to do with geography, and was spurred instead by my studies in the history of printing (here we have a mid-13th-century account, for a European audience, of Chinese writing and printing, including the Mongol empire's use of printed paper money).

Seeing as how Friar William's _Itinerarium_ is well outside my period and subject expertise, I wanted to state for the record that my earlier identification of the 1st-century geographer, Isidore of Charax, as William's source re. the Caspian Sea must be in error.


However, I don't believe this changed identity for the "Isidore" of Friar William's text invalidates my larger argument with Giulio. ;-)

Isidore of Seville's writings on the Caspian Sea (which I have not read myself, and know nothing about other than William's account of his speculative Central Asian geography) still indicate that the putative world survey of 44-7 BCE was already "lost" to European medieval scholars.

Plus, there is further corroborating evidence that it was not known about even in the 1st century CE.

In his _Natural History_, Pliny the Elder (who was connected to all the power centers of the Roman Empire, and certainly would have known about a Roman world survey, had one been completed) stated that there was no "accurate measurement" of northern Central Asia to be had:

        "The breadth of the earth from south to north, is commonly
        supposed to be about one-half only of its length, viz., 4490
        miles; .... Beyond the Tanais the most diligent authors have
        not been able to obtain any accurate measurement. Artemidorus
        supposes that everything beyond is undiscovered, since he
        confesses that, about the Tanais, the tribes of the Sarmatae
        dwell, who extend toward the North Pole. Isidore adds 1250
        miles, as the distance to Thule; but this is mere
        conjecture." (Pliny, _Natural History_, II, 112)

        & elsewhere: "The whole distance (of Asia) to the Tanais,
        including Egypt, is, according to Artemidorus and Isidore,
        6375 miles." (Pliny, _Natural History_, V, 9)

And then there's the testimony of Dionysius Periegetes, whose geography was translated into English by Thomas Twine, and printed in 1572 by Henry Bynneman as _The Surveye of the World_. In his translator's preface, Twine explains the origins of the work (his account taken from Pliny):

        "It is long sythence he [Dionysius] wrote in the Greeke
        tongue, and hath bin translated into Latine of late yeares,
        by dyvers. In whose commendation, if he had needed other than
        hys owne, purchased by just deserte, since he first wrote, I
        wold not have wanted to have done my endevoure. But for so
        muche as he is accompted of all antiquitie, the olde writer,
        for compendiousnesse and brevity in that he tooke in hand:
        sufficie[n]t it shal be in prayse or authoritie to have
        yealded to him his owne, & no more. Whiche what it is read
        *Plinie*, and there understand howe that the author of this
        woorke beeing borne in *Alexandria*, a citie in *Eegypt*,
        descended of a moste noble familie, abounding in great welth
        & authoritie, wrote not only this woorke, whiche wee have
        interpreted, The Surveye of the habitable Worlde in
        *Hexameter* verses, beeing as yet but very yong: but also
        many other, both lerned and eloque[n]t. Who afterward
        resorting to the courte of Rome, was sent by *Augustus* the
        Emperour, to surveye & report the state & situation of
        cuntries in the east parts of the worlde, when his eldest
        sonne was upon expedition into *Armenia*, to the *Parthians*,
        and *Arabians*. What shall I say, that ther have bin many
        other worthy men of that name, who have be[n] supposed to be
        the authors of this boke - howbeit, falsly in my opinion, as
        by farther discourse (at this present) not necessarie, I
        could declare...."

In his book, Dionysius is clear that he has surveyed the Caspian Sea in his imagination only:

        "The Sea *Caspium* commeth neare by to them, which I truste
        easly and wyth expedition to discribe if God will give me
        grace, not as one that hath seene those places (by traveling
        thether to view the platfourme or situation of the[m], as
        many men have accustomed to doe, whiche thinke there is none
        other felicitie, but to heape up ryches by wandring about the
        worlde, thereby to deck themselves up wyth Golde, to glyster
        with Pearles and precious stones, to adorne their Palaces
        with sumptuous buildings, for so muche as I was never
        instructed by my Parentes in trade of marchandise,) but like
        him who from his tender yeares, hath ben brought up in studie
        of good learning, whereby it commeth now to passe, that those
        things whiche are very farre distant, I doe beholde as
        present, and can conceyve every place throughly in my mynde
        and cogitation without any errour.
        
        "*Of the Sea Caspium.*

        "The fourme and fashion of the Sea *Caspium* is suche, that
        it lyeth almost rounde lyke a circle [according to my modern
        atlas, it's now actually shaped like a peanut ;-], for it is
        most sure that it rysethe from the Ocean, which at the Northe
        side, beateth upon the shoare of *Scythia* from whence
        running forthe, at fyrste through desertes and places
        unhabited, stretcheth forthe to the Southe in very narrowe
        streits, untill that encreasing more and more in wydenesse,
        at length it approcheth to y^e foote of mount *Caucasus*.
        This Sea is navigable, and in that respect very commodious to
        the countries nigh al times of the yeare, excepting three
        moneths onely ...." (Twine's 1572 trans. from the Latin)

All of which, I think, suggests that the Roman world survey of 44-7 BCE was quite limited in scope -- probably just to what Pliny calls "Our part of the earth".

Deborah
_____

Deborah Taylor-Pearce
[email protected]





_______________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.nl

Maphist mailing list
[email protected]
http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist

Reply via email to