Hi :) Hmmm, tricky. I really like Base. For simple things it's great. I really like the concept and i would like it even more if we could collaborate with other projects such as Google-docs or something in bringing. I still think it's buggy and almost unusable in some cases. It's a major blocker to up-take of LO in corporate settings because of the regressions and quirkiness but that doesn't mean i don't like it. Regards from Tom :)
--- On Wed, 14/9/11, Charles-H. Schulz <[email protected]> wrote: From: Charles-H. Schulz <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?) To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 18:57 Hello Alexander, Le Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:27:27 +0200, Alexander Thurgood <[email protected]> a écrit : > Le 14/09/11 15:05, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : > > Hi Charles, > > > > The second point is about recruitment of developers. I hope that > > I'm not making myself a mistake in assuming that what is being > > understood is to actually hire developers... perhaps what is meant > > is attracting developers? In any case, we cannot mandate developers > > to work on something like we would do in a company. It's a big > > difference between a business and a FOSS community and project. > > Developers join by themselves, provided the information is there. > > Exactly, my comment as to the requirements of a developer were more in > line with "if a volunteer wants to step up this is how high the > barrier to entry is going to be", and not at all a view to hiring a > developer, which as you mention, is not something that really happens > in FOSS projects (or else, only on rare occasions). > > > > > > I must admit I am myself very, very unclear on what we are trying to > > achieve with Base. And it's not just now, it's always been the case > > (for me, at least). Base was added to Openoffice.org as a new > > module and the whole experience was suboptimal. > > Well my memory is obviously slightly older than yours because I > remember the days of OOo 1.1.x and prior to that with StarOffice, > where databases were already accessible, where forms could be > designed and made, and queries designed and run. I even designed a > switchboard document with buttons that let me link and switch to > forms for data entry. The rest, as they say, is history, and after > some humming and hahing by Sun we ended up with the Base module as we > currently know/love/hate it. heh... you have a point. I wasn't thinking about Adabas and the old (proprietary StarOffice). Yet the whole concept was a bit different at that time... > > > > mean time. The result now is not that we have developers not doing > > anything on Base (in fact, we do). The result is that there are less > > resources on this because developers are simply less interested in > > acting on it, and there's nothing we can force them to do (or not > > do). > > Quite. > > > > > > Hence, one thing that might help -and this is very much a call for > > brainstorm, with the hope that we collect expectations about Base- > > is to gather feedback from users, see what we can understand from > > their use, or non-use of Base, and not being afraid to ask some > > real questions. > > I actually think this would be a good idea : it was, after all (at > least that is what we were led to believe), the results of a user > survey that goaded Sun into action about designing Base2 (as opposed > to maintaining/improving the then existing database capability). > > > > > As an example: should Base be scrapped off? Should we use it as a > > front end to another DB? should we try to compete with Access? > > Should it be geared towards a more complete usage (read: integrated > > as a front end to enterprise DB); is it enough to squash the > > reported bugs on Base? etc. > > > > After that survey we can a) analyze the results b) take action in > > two forms: suggestions to the broader community (devs included) or > > writing a set of RFEs (Request For Enhancement). RFEs are something > > developers can work with. You may call them hacks, but the point > > is this; you describe in technical and functional terms, step by > > step, what a feature should be. Not just "It should be able to > > compete with Access" or "it should be red". But rather: > > "description of feature, rationale, behaviour, usage scenario, > > etc.". > > > > If a survey were to see the light of day, it would need to have the > broadest possible communication, as the majority of Base users I know > are not actually on any of the LibO lists, or at least their voices > are not often to be heard. It would be interesting to hear what > people still using OOo feel too, because on the Apache lists, IBM, > for one, appears to have no real interest in a sophisticated frontend > solution (they got rid of it completely in Symphony). > > > So whilst the general discussion about Base could well be carried out > on the discuss list, it would be good for discussions about making a > survey to be kept here IMO. In fact, putting the survey online should not be impossible... But let's agree on the questions first. 1) Users typology - platform - modules that are the most used (list all LibreOffice modules and allow the responding person to select each of them from 1 to 5) 2) About Base: - use case typology (more input needed here, I won't be exhaustive) - do you use Base as a font-end to external DBs or do you rely on HSQLDB ? Or both? - how would you rate Base? (choice between "it's bad, it's very buggy, it's okay but it could be much better, I really like it"). - what is the most blocking bug in Base according to you (free answer + possible pointing to a reported issue 3) Base in the future - do you plan to use Base more or less in the future? - do you plan to use Base as a front end to external DB or do you plan to use it as a front end to the embedded HSQLDB? - do you think LibreOffice should get rid of Base? - If LibreOffice were to get rid of Base, what would you be using as a front end to databases? (freeform answer). What do you think? Other questions to add? Some to pull away? Thanks, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
