Title: Re: M-TH: Lenin and the working class
LO Again,

>>This wasn't just Lenin's assumption. It was Marx's and Engels's too. The same way as the bourgeoisie was inherently revolutionary in relation to feudalism. The historical role of the bourgeoisie was to emancipate itself from the chains of feudal property relations. Which it did.
 
That did not mean that the bourgeoisie were inherently revolutionary, it meant that their material basis had the objective potential for creating a capitalist revolution, and that the progress of history would place them in the position of having to enact that revolution - that is different by far from the idea that the working class would automatically have their revolution if freed from the ideology of the capitalist class - a working class revolution requires the conscious awareness and determination of the working class, not their unconcious and inherent activity in the world.

>>The rapist comparison is stupid.
 
"You know what she *really* wants, don't you?"  "She was asking for it..>" "All women want it really", "It is the objective historical function of women to fuck."
 
the last highlighting the actuality of the philosophy - whilst the inherent historical tendancy of human beings is towards fucking, it does require their conscious subjective engagemnent of the human being.
 
>>If any social force can be compared to a rapist today it's the imperialist bourgeoisie. The violence of the working class should be aimed at dispossessing this bourgeoisie, ie at stopping its depradations. This is pure self-defence and what the feminist movement (or the more militant wings of it) have been advocating for women for a long time. The role of the working class is that of women in general compared to militant feminists in this particular comparison. And who would argue against the mass of women being empowered to defend themselves against the gender enemy?
 
Indeed, but that is different from some jumped up vanguard running along, putting guns to our heads and saying they're in charge.
 
>>It's enough to speak of Lenin's vanguardism. Elitism has nothing to do with it.
 
Well, Úlite and superiority is inherent in the vanguard concept.
 
Bill MArtin (S.P.G.B)

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