Actually it was Ralph Dumain's discussion of Ilyenkov which I forwarded to this list.
Jim Farmelant On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:03:54 -0800 Steve Gabosch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi Victor, > > I have been lurking on Marxism-Thaxis now for a few weeks. Jim's > discussion of Evald Ilyenkov's Philosophy Revisited got my > attention, > too. Hi, Jim! Thanks for your post on that book, you are always > expanding > my horizons, as does Victor. > > On another discussion list last summer, I noticed some comments you > made, > Victory, about Ilyenkov and Peter Jones and the concept of ideality. > I am > glad you posted here on this topic. > > I am still a newcomer to Ilyenkov, but I am excited by what I have > read of > his so far. The compilation of essays in the book Jim discusses > indeed > look intriguing. > > I spent some time last year with a couple different versions of an > essay > Peter Jones wrote on the concept of the ideal - perhaps this is the > essay > of his in this compilation. Ilyenkov's essay "The Concept of the > Ideal" > was a key reading in one of the components of an internet course the > xmca > discussion list sponsored last spring, along with relevant writings > from > David Bakhurst and Peter Jones, who had different takes. This > course had a > big influence on me in seeing how Marxism and activity theory are > connected. Ilyenkov was for me a turning point, along with > Bakhurst. > > One conversation-starter in this line of inquiry on ideality, sort > of like > the old saw "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, does > it > make a sound?", is the question, 'does an artifact such as a hammer > have > ideality (or, do representations only have ideality?)'. > > I found the Jones viewpoint very challenging on several levels. > First, he > answers the above question 'no', that artifacts such as hammers do > not have > ideality. Second, Jones makes the claim that Ilyenkov also answers > 'no'. My reading of Ilyenkov's essay, following Bakhurst's writings > on the > subject, is that Ilyenkov answers very clearly, 'yes', and provides > a > compelling line of reasoning in support of this position. It is a > wider > and deeper look at the relationship of the material and the ideal > than I > had previously considered. I especially appreciated the > implications of > Ilyenkov's theorizing for cultural-historical psychology and > psychology and > philosophy in general. > > This discussion of materialism and ideality sounds like it would be > of > interest both here on Thaxis and also on xmca. I am not quite > prepared for > it right now - I would like to re-read the above materials, and try > to see > if I can find a copy of the compilation Jim talks about. I am also > just > getting a sense of the discussions about Soviet philosophy such as > on the > site Jim provides a URL to, so I have some homework. But it could > be a > worthy topic sometime down the line. Thoughts? > > - Steve > > > > > At 08:04 PM 1/19/04 +0200, you wrote: > >Jim, > >Thanks for the reference. > >I'm well acquainted with Bakehurst and Jones's writings on > Ilyenkov, but > >much less familiar with the works of the Japanese School. I expect > reading > >it will be an interesting experience. > >Regards, > >Victor > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jim Farmelant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:45 AM > >Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Fw: [marxistphilosophy] Evald > Ilyenkov'sPhilosophy > >Revisited (Ralph Dumain) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, this book is hard to come by, and I do not have > my own > > > copy, > > > but I did manage to get a look at a library copy. I've put up > the table > > > of > > > contents and other basic information: > > > > > > Evald Ilyenkov's Philosophy Revisited > > > http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/ilyenkv2.html > > > > > > Just a few stray notes on the contents: > > > > > > Bakhurst's article focuses on Ilyenkov's aesthetics, which are > profoundly > > > > > > humanistic though prejudiced against much of modern art. > > > > > > Zweerde's specialty is Soviet philosophical culture. In this > article, he > > > > > > discussed how Ilyenkov interacted with Soviet philosophical > culture, in > > > terms of his own interests and original manner of expression, > and both > > > how > > > he was curtailed by the Soviet regime while still permitted to > function, > > > and what this can tell us about ideological life in the USSR. > > > > > > Silvonen's comparison of Ilyenkov and Foucault is based on > Ilyenkov's > > > conception of ideality--his conception of the relation of mind > and > > > matter/body--and a comparison with Foucault's notions. > > > > > > Vartiainen makes use of Nonaka & Takeuchi's ideas about > knowledge > > > creation > > > and M. Polanyi's notion of tacit knowledge, and presents a > schema > > > involving > > > conversions between explicit and tacit knowledge. > > > > > > Knuuttila combines Umberto Eco's semiotics and Ilyenkov's > ideality. > > > > > > The articles on the logic of Capital in relation to ideality > (Jones, > > > Chiutty, Honkanen) are fascinating and merit close study, as > does this > > > facet of Ilyenkov's work. > > > > > > Honkanen discusses Ricardo, mathematical modelling, Uno and the > Japanese > > > school, and the history of historical vs. logical approaches to > Capital. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > > > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > >http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > > _______________________________________________ > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! 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