This inbred and rather unintelligent leftist breastbeating reminds me why I have quit so many groups. I wouldn't dignify this drivel with the notion of "debate".
At 01:47 PM 4/1/2008, Charles Brown wrote: >http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/2008-March/026094.html > >my "obsessive opposition" to Obama >Dbachmozart >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Joaquin Bustelo writes - > >What makes Dbachmozart include in a comment about the speech, >"Somebody >writes a clever bit of cliched rhetoric for him," without spending 5 >minutes >googling to see if there is any reporting on whether Obama or a ghost >writer >wrote that speech. Given the nature of the speech, it was obviously >relevant, which is WHY Dbachmozart found it worth asserting that it >was >written "for him" and not "by him. OK, in Dbachmozart's individual >case we >can speculate it is his obsessive opposition to this particular >bourgeois >politician. But the same meme is all over the internet and with no >foundation at all, which is where Dbachmozart picked it up > > > > >reply - > > >Re: my "obsessive opposition to this particular bourgeois politician" >- as >if Obama is the only bourgeois politician that I and other comrades >oppose! On >a Marxism list, I wouldn't expect much time to be devoted to debunking >the >promises of a McCain or Clinton or even a Kucinich - I don't sense any > >illusions about their campaign rhetoric from comrades. But there are >some obvious >flirtations being made here towards Obama, and if they can't be >criticized on >THIS list without the demagogic accusation of white supremacy being >used as a >cudgel to stifle that criticism, then the political situation in the >US is >even worse than I thought . I could understand and even partially >sympathize >with such a flirtation if Obama's campaign had HALF the clear left >wing thrust >that Jackson's Rainbow campaigns certainly did, but someone who >articulates >nothing more than the mealy-mouthed centrist drivel of "there is no >Black >America"/ giving Bush every penny he's asked for to destroy Iraq and >Afghanistan/ >blank check support to ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that Israel wants to do >to >the Palestinians/ "excesses of the 60s and 70s" praise for the Reagan >years - >program of the DLC - Democrats for the Leisure Class - THAT'S the >candidate >that we should stifle our critique of to appease those in the Black >community >who will settle for nothing more than "a Black face in a high place"?? >This >isn't leadership, it's tailism - opportunism, dressed up as being >"sensitive" >to the hopes and dreams of a cruelly oppressed people. It is a >reflection of >a pessimistic view of Black America as being hopelessly naive and >politically >unsophisticated. And what happens if and when he's elected and does >everything we know he'll do to protect the Empire's interests, what do >we tell people >who've listened and followed our advice to support him - even if >"critically"? We'd be in the same boat that a discredited Hillary is in >today as she >tries in vain to explain to anti war Democrats why she supported the >war in 2002 >- "I didn't really support actually going to war". > >There are those on the left who are supporting Obama with the >expectation >that once he gets into office and starts carrying out the DLC program, >his >supporters, invigorated by the promises and hopes of his campaign, >will turn >against him and create a powerful opposition from the left and if we >don't >antagonize them with our criticisms, we can be part of a new mass >radicalization! >The reality is that mass movements just don't spring up overnight. An >Obama >candidacy would de-mobilize the left as the Kerry candidacy did to the >anti >war movement in '04, and his DLC program would more likely demoralize >rather >than energize the forces that are so enthusiastically supporting him >today. >Where would that leave Black America and the left? > >Maybe comrade Bustelo feels that ALL critics of Obama are contaminated >by >white supremacy? And the Black critics from Black Agenda Report and >The Black >Commentary - AND MALCOLM X IF HE WAS STILL WITH US!! - must be ultra >left >"self-hating" Blacks! It seems that comrade Bustelo may have been >contaminated by >the demonizing tactics employed by Zionists against their critics. > >I have found myself in agreement with the valuable insights that this > >comrade has contributed here with respect to the struggle against all >forms of >white privilege including when it raises its head within the left, as >well as >with party building and the nationalist aspect of the combined >revolution in >South America. I also agree with him that if Obama does get the >nomination, the >non Democratic Party left must take a certain approach that we >wouldn't have >with a white candidate, something like "I hear where you're coming >from and >we both want the same thing, but there's something to the sayings >"show me who >your friends are and I'll tell you who you are" and "he who pays the >piper >picks the tune". However, I feel that comrade Bustelo and a few other >people >on this list are dangerously close to going over the line by actually > >supporting Obama's candidacy. If this is indeed the case, it would be >refreshing if >these comrades would just come out and say what they've been hinting >at these >last few months -- that they're supporting Obama -- not because of >going >soft on the Democrats, but because they want to be part of the "anti >racist >movement", or whatever cliche they choose. The discussion could then >proceed on >a political rather than an ad hominem level. > _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list [email protected] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
