Louis Proyect Charles Brown wrote: > This is what is behind Marx and Engels principle that the "advanced " > capitalist countries must develop socialism first, or be among the > first, not the mechanical or stagist notion that a people cannot "learn" > socialism without first learning capitalism. The first socialist nations > cannot be economically less developed countries than the co-existent > capitalist countries, because the advanced countries can use their > superior material development to create superior militaries and bludgeon > the less developed socialist countries into giving up socialism, as we > learned from the histories of socialist SU and "people's republican" > China.
There are some problems with this: 1. Advanced capitalist countries have not gone through a working-class radicalization in over 60 years. 2. Underdeveloped countries are driven to socialist revolution because imperialism stifles growth. With the exception of a few countries that are going through an economic upturn right now, most countries are driven to the kinds of desperation that has spawned armed struggle of the sort seen in Nicaragua, Angola, El Salvador, etc. If there is no armed struggle, there are still powerful mass movements that push relentlessly against capitalism (Chile in the early 70s, Venezuela today). 3. Countries moving in an independent direction are attacked by imperialism whether there are capitalist property relations or socialist property relations. The US was just as adamantly opposed to Michael Manley as it was to Fidel Castro. The only way to avoid CIA meddling or armed contra bands is to accept the capitalist status quo. ^^^^ CB: I'm not clear on how 1, 2 and 3 contradict what I said above. It is a big problem that no advanced capitalist countries have gone through working class radicalization for many years. I attribute this in large part to the fact that the bourgeoisie in the capitalist countries started taking Marx and Lenin very seriously after 1917. So, they developed very effective anti-communist anti-working class counter measures within their countries as well as around the world. If Communist focused on the working class and especially the industrial sector, the bourgeoisie could do so from the opposite side of the class battle lines. And of course with McCarthyism , for example, they just "cheated" by using the repressive apparatus of the state and the state-like powers of private corporations to outlaw and make illicit Communists and communist parties. Of course, they also succeeded in identifying patriotism with anti-communism by casting the Soviet Union as America's main enemy during the Cold War. Obviously this double or triple wammy was and is totally successful. This is just a fact ( sometimes called objective conditon) and I for one know no way around it _for now_. I guess Lou is saying the "problem" is if we have to depend on revolution in advanced capitalist countries before in less economically advanced countries ( as I said), ain't nothin' happenin'. I agree it's a big problem, but I don't see an way around what we learned from the super holocaust against Communists in the 20th Century. On the other hand, and maybe this is what Lou is getting at, I don't mean that the heroic efforts in Venezuela, Cuba, Angola, Nicaragua, even Russia, China , Viet Nam in the 20th Century "shouldn't' happen or should wait for the Workers of the West to get it going on. Who the hell would I be to say that ! What inspiration the Bolivarians give us in the most "advanced" stinking capitalist nation to try and still make the rev in the belly of the beast. And Lou is correct ( of course !) that people in these nations are driven to struggle with arms and otherwise by imperialism. I'm just trying to state a fundamental and gigantic contradiction honestly, as a basis for coming up with a new answer. In the face of that giant contradiction, I still say, the struggle continues; victory is certain ! This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
