M-TH: Fancy and the Ideal
Charles Brown CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us 
Thu Sep 10 14:52:48 MDT 1998 

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>>> Russ writes

>Of course, I agree that
>"fancy" is a romantic term,
>but "romantic" seems 
>eminently imaginary
>to me, so it's good for
>the binary contrast (as
>only a starting point for
>a dialectic !) here. 
>Oh yea, my aphorism now is
>Being determines consciousnes, but
>being determines consciousness discontinuously.
>Continuously, being and consciousness are
>more reciprocally determining. That is, in the mean
>time, in between time (between the revolutions
>when being determines consciousness suddenly,
>rarely like the roof falling in asserts the law
>of gravity) ain't we got fun (fancy).

But ther Ideal is not imaginary- trying to find the ref to the book with 
Illenkov's essay 'The Concept of the Ideal' Anyone help- any Pilling fans 
out there? Dave B James H?

And how about this one?

"Ideology is false, partial consciousness  to the extent that
it does not locate its object within the concrete totality...
Ideology, however is more than false consciousness.
It is not a mere subjective fantasy but a 'conscious'
expression of the objective appearance assumed by capitalist
reality. As conscious being, it is therefore an essential
and necessary part of this reality. Ideology is the
concept which correspeonds to the real existance of the
surface, as opposed to the correct, total consciousness
which sees beyond the surface to the essential forms of social
relations. The reality of bourgeois society is made up not
only of material relations but also of ideology."
(Jakubowski _Ideology and Superstructure in Historical Materialism_ 

NB Here's the full ref for Benhabib:
Benhabib, Seyla. 1986._Critique Norm and Utopia: A Study of the 
'Foundations of Critical Theory._New York: Columbia University Press.


Charles: I'll think about the above some more.
But what about the famous quote from Marx
in _Capital_ vol. I. in the chapter on the
Labor process, where he says the unique
quality of human labor is that it is 
built in the imagination first, unlike the
bee or the spider ?  That doesn't contradict
what you say and quote above necessarily, 
but, it seems to be that the imaginary is related
to the objective like the ideal you describe,
so why wouldn't the ideal  be imaginary ?

Gotta go myself right now.

Charles Brown

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