Materialism is a form of idealism Chris Doss I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is, but I meant metaphysical materialism, not historical materialism, which is a whole other kettle of piscines.
Metaphysical materialism is logically incoherent because "matter" is an idea. Historical materialism, which is merely that human beliefs and cultures are determined by technological development and so forth, is not logically incoherent. ^^^^^^^^^^ CB, "Metaphysical materialism is logically incoherent because "matter" is an idea. " That's not persuasive to me. You'll have to elaborate. Ideas are material. They are electric impulses in the brain. I just saw a 60 minutes show wherein the latest brain physiology allows paralyzed people to control artificial limbs with hitech stuff. In other words, they have decoded the brain waves or ideas, like "left" or "right", "up" ,"down" such that they can use them to do exactly what they mean (!). No more mind/body problem in philo 101. Anyway, ideas are matter. So, the idea "matter" _is_ matter. It can't be _reduced_ to matter, it's matter and more. A la Aristotle, all ideas are matter , but not all matter is ideas. Sort of like humans are animals and more. Anyway turns out that some matter has a dimension that can be termed "message". Does that help ? I term my "point" on this issue as dialectical materialism, as you may know. You may even be reading _Materialism and Empirio-Criticism_ in the original Russian some time. I admit I get my "point" from Engels and Lenin on that. Lenin defines "materialism" there as belief in the existence of objective reality. This is "realism" in "bourgeois" philo, I think. He and Engels develop their argument as a critique of Kantianism especially. Kantianism is shamefaced materialism or dualism. As to Historical materialism , I would define it somewhat differently than you do: that fundamental_changes__ or revolutions in human beliefs systems and cultures are caused when serious contradictions arise between those belief systems and their accompanying relations of production. The latter include both social relations and means of production. Necessity is the mother of invention. I agree this is logically conherent.. These revolutions are rare, by the way. Most of the time the idea systems are very determinative of people's conduct. Most of the time of history, a form of idealism is true. This is the truth of Sahlins puckish humor in the aritcle, I think. Ideas dictate the activities in the economic system , conventionally. Tradition/culture/symbol systems rules in convention. Necessity is the mother of invention. How's that for thinking outside the box, tvarish ? Or better a theory of how major paradoxes , cause whole new thought boxes I disagree that materialism ( as defined by Lenin) or realism is logically incoherent. Maybe I'll critique Sahlins tomorrow --- On Thu, 9/3/09, c b <cb31450 at gmail.com> wrote: > We never knew White was a member of the Socialist Labor > Party in the > ’30s and early ’40s, contributing articles to The > Weekly People under > the name John Steel. Nor could you have guessed from his > so-Americanized version of Marxism: a theory of cultural > evolution > based singularly on technological progress. Progress in the > Neolithic, > he claimed, came from the increase in the amount of energy > harnessed > per capita because of plant and animal domestication. He > was not > amused when I objected that energy “per capita” was the > same as in the > Old Stone Age, since the primary mechanical source remained > the human > body. _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
