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I have to disagree. Maybe my conception of the lumpen is incorrect but my understand is its those outside of aristocracy, bourgeoisie, proletariats and peasants. They are a mixture of groups, from mobsters to as Marx said (maybe jokingly) as Louis Bonaparte. And I think those that take part in these black bloc actions are usually the squatter anarchist who is not a proletarian and is looking for destruction. I further reject the idea they are all middle class kids looking for oppression. No doubt those people exist, but I meet many of the black bloc anarchists and they live in their "communes" of sorts and very well may for their whole lives and are not just middle class kids who are rebelling against their suburban upbringing. I'd really really be interested in what Bakunin would say about these actions, haha. I think he would love it. But I don't know how serious he was about the idea of arming the lumpens and telling them to cause havoc... I only vaguely remember it from Statism and Anarchy, I'll have to go back and read it again. Tristan ________________________________________________ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com