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On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 10:35 AM, Louis Proyect <l...@panix.com> wrote:

> So, 113 years ago, the left-wing of the Dutch social democracy said it was
> acceptable to vote for liberal candidates but only on the basis that they
> were for universal suffrage. When universal suffrage in the USA is
> abolished and we return to voting based on property rights, I too will vote
> for any liberal who supports a return to universal suffrage.

It wasn't just the Dutch and the main condition was universal suffrage in
this case but there were a range of conditions and considerations involved
in other cases throughout the Second International. Also, while you're glib
about the suffrage question, I think there is a power small-d democratic
argument to made for socialists voting for the Democratic Party simply on
democratic grounds given that various kinds of voter suppression affect the
Democratic Party vote more so and purposively so.

For the rest of your email, you read a lot into the phrase "liberal
workers’ government" as a reason to dismiss Lenin's arguments on the
British Labor Party (which you have still not addressed directly in any
substantive way). Further, this reference is misleading since your
reference is incomplete. As John Riddell
documents, that version did not include the amendment that the first two
types listed were "illusory" and were "in reality hidden coalition
governments between the bourgeoisie and antirevolutionary workers’

And so when you cite "The first two types of workers’ governments (the
workers’ and peasants’ and the social-democratic/Communist governments)
fall short of representing the dictatorship of the proletariat, but are
still an important starting-point for the winning of this dictatorship" you
miss that while it says "first two" it specifies types three and four in
the list (perhaps because the process of amendment wasn't finalized),
leaving out the first "liberal workers' government" which refers to the
Labor Parties and on which your case rests.

And so re: "So funny that someone so bent on proving Lenin was in favor of
Menshevik electoral strategy would cite something he wrote in 1920 that
reflected ultraleft thinking in the Kremlin.", are you saying Lenin was
actually ultraleft in 1920 on the British Labor Party? If so, I'd like to
see an argument as to why.

Also, you still have not demonstrated that this is a "Menshevik electoral
strategy" I'm talking about since it also reflects Bolshevik strategy and
that of  Luxemburg and others.

-Jason Hicks
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