******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. *****************************************************************
How does Brexit "respond to working-class interests"? It is an example of a layer of workers looking for an easy road out and turning towards their own capitalist class rather than the rest of the working class outside of Britain. It is interesting that Carl does not deny that the working class Brexit vote was an anti-immigrant vote. How is that in the interests of the working class? There is much made of the EU rules that demand austerity. But, as I said, that is only the recognition of accomplished fact and it is simplistic to claim that once outside the EU the British it will be easier for British workers to defeat austerity. Just the opposite, because the laws of motion of global capitalism will drive Britain in that direction, just as it has every single capitalist country on the planet. So, maybe Carl and the other "Lexiteers" can explain that! The only way to even start to reverse that, the only way to even begin to stand up to international capital, is through international working class solidarity, international coordinated working class action. But the Brexit vote makes that immensely more difficult. In fact, as I said, the working class vote was not a vote even for working class independent action (never mind international action); it was a vote to turn to the British capitalist class. Meanwhile, we saw a huge increase in hate crime and chauvinism leading up to and after the Brexit vote. Shouldn't that tell us something? It's also significant that, to my knowledge, not a single one of those groups that pretended that a "Lexit" was possible even commented in this rise of bigotry. Why? Because to admit it would be to admit the fact that the Brexit vote was a reactionary one. Brexit was an early example of the red brown alliance. That is undeniable. John Reimann On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galli...@illinois.edu> wrote: > Maybe John would like to respond to Tuck’s histroically-based argument > that Brexit responds to working-class interests. > > > On Jul 11, 2018, at 6:18 PM, John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I may be mistaken, but I do believe that Marx died well before the EU came > into existence. > > Of course, this is a snarky way of saying that he was writing about an > entirely different period in the development of capitalism. The EU is a > symptom of the problem; it's not the problem itself. > > Maybe Carl would like to respond to the main points of my comments instead > of citing an article from "Dissent" (from what?) magazine. > > John Reimann > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galli...@illinois.edu> > wrote: > >> A weel-known socialist might disagree with you. Marx might think it >> worthwhile to be free of EU ‘constitutionalism’: >> >> https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/left-case-brexit >> >> —CGE >> >> >> On Jul 11, 2018, at 3:57 PM, John Reimann via Marxism < >> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: >> "What we now need is a socialist Brexit." Yes, and what the jumper from >> the >> Golden Gate Bridge needed was the suspension of the laws of gravity. >> Unfortunately for both the jumper and the "Lexiteers", I'm not sure which >> is less likely. >> >> A lot of things can be said and a lot denied about the Brexit vote. One >> thing that cannot be denied with any degree of truth is that it was a >> right >> wing, anti-immigrant vote. Sure, some - maybe most - of the workers who >> voted for Brexit may not have been chauvinists, but every single interview >> I saw of Brexit voters, including some pro-Brexit interviews, showed the >> workers as saying that first and foremost the reason they voted for Brexit >> was immigration. >> >> The entire Brexit vote was predicated on the idea that workers would be >> better off under the rule of British capitalism vs. European capitalism. >> This means that British workers should ally themselves with with the >> British capitalist class. Inevitably, this means at the cost of allying >> itself with the European working class. >> >> Unfortunately, the anti-Brexit campaign limited itself in this sense: It >> wasn't enough to campaign *against *Brexit; it was and is necessary to >> link >> that with a campaign *for* something. That "something" was and is >> pan-European working class unity and a pan-European campaign for a >> region-wide minimum wage, region-wide minimum social safety net, etc. The >> Brexit vote makes that all the more difficult. >> >> As far as the issue of the EU enforcing austerity: We should remember >> Marx's comment that law represents established fact. So do the EU >> mandates, >> and the established fact is that EU mandates or not, global capitalism >> requires national austerity. Show me one single capitalist government - EU >> member or not - that is not enforcing this sort of austerity. >> >> The "left" can comfort itself with "Lexit" all it likes. It remains >> nothing >> but a nice fairy tale which was and is preordained to come into existence >> as much as is the tale of Cinderella. >> >> John Reimann >> _________________________________________________________ >> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm >> Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt >> ions/marxism/galliher%40illinois.edu >> >> >> > > > -- > *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black > Jacobins" by C. L. R. James > Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook > > > -- *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black Jacobins" by C. L. R. James Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
