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Not going to bother with John's response line-by-line but his statement about the meaning of the symbol is totally incorrect, again suggesting that symbols have inherent meaning regardless of where/how they are used and depicted, and his suggestion that we should accept that something is offensive based on how it is perceived and how people "feel" (including NYT staffers) is a gateway to chauvinism and war propaganda, including people who "feel" as though it is anti-Semitic when we make legitimate condemnations of Zionism. As I pointed out in my first response, the line of argument from HuffPost has nothing to do with the skullcap (which they skipped over), but simply some sort of vague rhetorical similarity between opposition to Israel/Zionism generally and "anti-Semitic tropes" (read: "Nazis said X about Jews, and so leftists/activists saying something similar to X about the Israeli state is a throwback to Nazism"). It is the same line of reasoning used to smear Ilhan Omar. That line of reasoning is total garbage. Also it is spelled "yarmulke". Best, Amith R. Gupta On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:47 AM John Obrien <causecollec...@msn.com> wrote: > The Star of David is a symbol that represents Jewry, it was long before > the present State of Israel. > Netanyahua is Jewish - but does not represent ALL Jews presently, or > through the ages. > The image on that dog, was not the State of Israel flag, it was a symbol > traced to 1,600 years ago and used to symbolize those identified as > religious faith Jews. > > Do I sense anti-Jew themes and messages in that sketch and tragically in > much else being oozed out - Yes I do! > Am I sensitive about bigotry and hate - yes and as should we all. > > Anti-Semitism against Jews and Arabs, is on the rise. I see it on the > internet and I hear it from those who think that I would be receptive to > hate. > > What do you mean when you write in denial response: "I'll admit the Trump > skullcap is sketch but" - the wording is not clear - > do you mean this was indeed anti-Jewish? (It clearly was) and you now > recognize that . If so, is that not enough and the "but" is not needed to > dilute this? > > The religious head piece is called a Yamika. Trump is not blind - or > being tricked/deceived by "clever Jews". Trump is not even Jewish to my > knowledge. > One of his daughters is - so he therefore is under "suspicion". > > The drawing was offensive to many - accept that - and perhaps learn more > WHY this sketch is viewed that way - due to a history of oppression. > The NY Tmes did not first apologize and only changed when staff quit and > negative blowback. Do you start to get why this cartoon is wrong and > hate? > ------------------------------ > *.* > I'll admit the Trump skullcap is sketch but the other elements really > aren't. It sounds like the AJC and the Times (and fellow comrades) are > splitting hairs so as to read in anti-Semitic themes in what is plainly a > cartoon about Netanyahu leading an idiot President. I do not see anything > anti-Jewish about depicting Netanyahu or Israel as America's attack-dog. > > That Nazis and others use such imagery for their own nefarious reasons > should not be a reason to read it in to anti-Zionist art, which was the > thrust of the concern voiced in HuffPost. > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 12:57 AM mkaradjis . via Marxism < > marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > > > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > > ***************************************************************** > > > > "And the yarmulke on Trump’s head, what point does that make?" > > > > I think it suggests that America is being run by a Jew, and that's why it > > is so strongly supportive of Israel. > > I usually agree with Amith on these issues, but I think here the cartoon > is > > pretty disgusting. > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:48 PM Ken Hiebert via Marxism < > > marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > > > > > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > > > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > > > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > > > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > > > ***************************************************************** > > > > > > I don’t know what the cartoonist intended, but the cartoon has > problems. > > > There is a distinction to be made if you want to indicate Israel with a > > > Star of David. On the Israeli flag it appears between two bars. By > > itself > > > it might indicate Israel or it might simply indicate someone or > something > > > Jewish. > > > If you want to indicate Israel, why not use the flag? > > > > > > And the yarmulke on Trump’s head, what point does that make? How does > > > that help anyone to understand the relationship between the US and > > Israel? > > > > > > ken h > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Full posting guidelines at: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marxmail.org%2Fsub.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6cf248ec5356423e9dee08d6cca02c59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636921385637185347&sdata=snB9R2by1Jglv%2BLBPqUSefLpgTMiekQSCYh2puAggCk%3D&reserved=0 > > > Set your options at: > > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.csbs.utah.edu%2Foptions%2Fmarxism%2Fmkaradjis%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6cf248ec5356423e9dee08d6cca02c59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636921385637195358&sdata=JU%2F0t0A1qUe1TMtSCMqXndBieVnxR2Bamfgvct%2Bx2kk%3D&reserved=0 > > _________________________________________________________ > > Full posting guidelines at: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marxmail.org%2Fsub.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6cf248ec5356423e9dee08d6cca02c59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636921385637195358&sdata=tW5%2FVlOfl8WmhykR8gTnyx3tEPlxXhZbIBfY7t6n0Qs%3D&reserved=0 > > Set your options at: > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.csbs.utah.edu%2Foptions%2Fmarxism%2Famithrgupta%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6cf248ec5356423e9dee08d6cca02c59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636921385637195358&sdata=XuQoSDsarpcQtbxhsxaU8lsLx%2F37rlDMgs4vuxCWhPM%3D&reserved=0 > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marxmail.org%2Fsub.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6cf248ec5356423e9dee08d6cca02c59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636921385637195358&sdata=tW5%2FVlOfl8WmhykR8gTnyx3tEPlxXhZbIBfY7t6n0Qs%3D&reserved=0 > Set your options at: > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.csbs.utah.edu%2Foptions%2Fmarxism%2Fcausecollector%2540msn.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6cf248ec5356423e9dee08d6cca02c59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636921385637195358&sdata=NAzH%2BZtzM236WsscKi%2FmFpRPZg0N%2BeJTXt9clN9NkbI%3D&reserved=0 > _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
