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I agree with Chris that the SDF getting help from the US, or from Assad, when the areas where it has its base of support, especially Kurdish areas, are under attack, is not the same as the 'TFSA' taking part in Turkey's conquest operation in northeast Syria, or in Afrin. In the first case it is defensive of their own interests and those of their base; in the second case they are far from their base of support and essentially subordinate to Turkey's interests. Of course, that is not always the case. As I have continually pointed out, the SDF's conquest of Arab-majority, rebel-held northern Aleppo/Tal Rifaat region in early 2016, under air cover of the Russian airforce, was basically similar to what the 'TFSA' is doing now - conquest outside their base of support, expulsion of the local population, collaborating with an invading power which was already raining massive death on Syrians. Unfortunately, in that case, Chris and other Rojava supporters and SA members always justify or provide apologetics for this. This will be coming in Chris's next response. Yet it can hardly be avoided, because this action cut East Aleppo off from its hinterland which reached the Turkish border, making it easier for Assad to surround Aleppo (and the SDF also later aided the actual Assad conquest of Aleppo) and this is remembered by the rebels and their base. As I said, the opposite is the case at the moment. The problem however is the question of what the SDF may have given away, or agreed to do, to get this Assad "protection". There have been rumours that the SDF may have agreed to take part in Assad's offensive against Greater Idlib as quid pro quo. In that case, it would be doing the same as the 'TFSA' now, and we should of course wish for the defeat of any such sold-out 'Rojava' forces in that case. But for the moment, I will give the SDF the benefit of the doubt on that. (Ironically, if it were true, it may be quite similar to the quid pro quo that Turkey has no doubt agreed to for getting Putin's support for seizing 3000 square kilometres between Tal Abyad and Ras al-Ayn: that Assad be allowed to reconquer Greater Idlib from the rebels!) Unfortunately, there does appear to be more evidence that the info sent by John Reimann - of the SDF collaborating with Assad forces arresting anti-Assad protestors in (Arab-majority) Manbij, in which case it does go way "beyond necessity" and puts them back in the other position. According to Elizabeth Tsurkov reporting from the region: "Concerning developments in Arab-majority areas under SDF control as the regime seeks to return to these areas. The SDF is arresting activists organizing anti-regime not even anti SDF protests and strikes. Contacts told me the Asayish is searching phones for any pro-FSA content." 27-Video issued by what so-called the Internal Security Forces of Manbej Military Council showing confessions of 2 activists accused of organizing a strike to block entry of the regime into Manbej.The headline of the video is"MMC thwarts an attempt 2 harm the stability of Manbej" https://twitter.com/Elizrael/status/1188150113081929728?fbclid=IwAR3BR1MJ-Q9Ro3Vz8A1XQceeBFbTH1Sbyv2xMh9JW-L1H9wUAnX_r8fibr8 Tsurkov is no apologist for Turkey or the 'TFSA' (or for that matter for the FSA itself). She writes also in the same thread: "The Turkish-backed Syrian "National Army" enjoys almost 0 popular support anywhere & are seen as undisciplined marauders.[However] Civilians should not be arrested merely for having brothers in the ranks of the SNA. SDF fighters themselves often have relatives in the SNA." She also wrote this damning article about the Turkish invasion: https://forward.com/opinion/433095/oh-my-god-why-are-they-doing-this-northeastern-syrians-await-their-fate/ As I earlier wrote, my fears of what they SDF plans are were raised when Chris earlier sent that statement where they said that their new arrangement with Assad opened the doors to the "liberation" of Jarablus, al-Bab, Azaz, mare and Afrin. At least that statement specifically excluded Idlib. But, apart from Afrin, all four other cases would be support to Assadist conquest of rebel-held zones (as in Tal Rifaat), and "liberation only in the sense of what the 'TFSA' is doing now. Let's hope it was just Apoist bluster. On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 10:15 PM Chris Slee via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > RKOB claims that "the U.S. coopted the PYD/YPG for its war > against ISIS and for control of East Syria". > > The YPG, and later the SDF, fought ISIS for their own reasons, not because > the US wanted them to. It was ISIS that attacked Rojava. The YPG/YPJ > initially fought in self defence. Subsequently they went on the > offensive, but this was done in collaboration with Arab groups, an alliance > which adopted the name Syrian Democratic Forces. > > The US for its own reasons, supported the SDF against ISIS. But this is > not the same as cooption. > > There was nothing inherently wrong with Syrian rebel groups accepting aid > from Turkey to fight the Assad regime. The problem was that Turkey used > this aid as a means of influencing many rebel groups to fight against the > Rojava revolution, rather than against Assad. This is what I mean by > cooption. > > Some of the groups were easily able to be coopted in this way because they > were already hostile to Rojava, because of religious extremism and/or > anti-Kurdish racism. > > Chris Slee > > > > ________________________________ > From: Marxism <marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu> on behalf of RKOB via > Marxism <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> > Sent: Saturday, 26 October 2019 1:07:47 PM > To: Chris Slee <chris_w_s...@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Marxism] YPG & Assad: beyond "necessity" > > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > Chris, I think you miss the point. > > You say: "The SDF is seeking US and/or Russian help in opposing the > Turkish invasion of northeastern Syria. The so-called Syrian National > Army is participating in the Turkish invasion. These are completely > different things." > > Well, why is the SNA participating in the Turkish invasion? Because they > (wrongly) hope to get back some land from which they and millions of > Syrian refugees were expelled by Assad/Russia. Why is this a worse > motive than that of the PYD/YPG?! > > You say: "But I have pointed out that Turkey has used such aid to coopt > some FSA groups into its war against the Rojava revolution." > > Yes, but why is it better that the U.S. coopted the PYD/YPG for its war > against ISIS and for control of East Syria? And why is this better that > Russia and Assad coopt the PYD/YPG for its drive to control the same > region? > > You say: "The groups involved in the SNA have effectively abandoned the > struggle against Assad. They have been taken away from the battle > against Assad in Idlib to participate in Turkey's war against the > Kurdish people and against the multi-ethnic democratic revolution in > northeastern Syria." > > As you might know, I agree with this criticism. But the PYD/YPG never > joined the battle against Assad! This is hardly better! > > And for the "multi-ethnic democratic revolution in northeastern Syria": > This is nonsense. Where are the Arab units now on the side of the > PYD/YPG? They are nowhere because there was no multi-ethnic democratic > revolution in northeastern Syria but a struggle of the PYD/YPG not only > to free the Kurdish people but also to dominate and occupy Arab-majority > territories. > > > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/mkaradjis%40gmail.com > _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
