******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. *****************************************************************
A Chinese visitor to northern Italy noted best why the virus has spread so widely in Italy -- she was astounded that the Italians she saw were refusing to practice social distancing, even in the depths of their visitation by the pandemic. > On March 20, 2020 at 8:52 AM hari kumar via Marxism > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > wrote: > > > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > *Chris Slee *I, in my view - right about those co-factors mentioned. (I > have not read the Telegraph version). > Another point is that there was a large population in the factories in > Italy. The clothing industry has seen a major shift. Now Chinese owned > conglomerates apparently bring to North Italy a large migrant population. > (Sorry - it was read in a German paper on th road, and I forget source). > So all sorts of issues on top of *population susceptibility* (age, > co-factors smoking, air pollution). These remain the main drivers. > > But other modifying factors, ones that will likely come into play will > likely also include obesity - and other general markers of ill health. > ThIs > is why the burden may be quite high in the USA (Unfortunately we can only > wait & see). > > However, there are other issues too. But in addition - the Italians were > slow to start contact tracing & isolation. That allowed spread and > reservoirs.... In some contrast to Germany. > As far as Germany is concerned: The Robert Koch Institute that > developed the WHO approved test - was very vigilant and active from the > outset. It started a very clear public understanding early on. And rapid > isolation of patients - the first from a contact with a Chinese > businesswoman in Munich visiting a factory. They from that published an > early paper in NEJM, showing that the transmission was by an > *asymptomatic* > person. ThIs was hugely controversial then, but it is apparently true - > and > an important vector. > > *By the bye: * > All bourgeois politicians are essentially cut from the same cloth. Yet > *there > are* differences. (we see evident differences between communists on this > list... I would venture to say. Why is it any different?). > Did anyone see the broadcast of *Angela Merkel* a few days ago? [Find at > AZD or Der Spiegel - it is not dubbed though]. > It was evidently sincere, kind and very straightforward. I have *never* > heard a bourgeois politician with a sincerity, in an address to the > nation - thank: "The cashiers at supermarkets and the workers who fill the > shelves - Thank you". > > Hari Kumar > > > > Message: 12 > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 02:08:03 +0000 > > From: Chris Slee <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > > > To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > > Cc: John Reimann <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [Marxism] > > Message-ID: > > < > > > > sl2p216mb0490d23449b2e799bf7ddc7ec4...@sl2p216mb0490.korp216.prod.outlook.com > > > > mailto:sl2p216mb0490d23449b2e799bf7ddc7ec4...@sl2p216mb0490.korp216.prod.outlook.com > > > > > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > > > > > > An article by Sarah Newey in the Telegraph cites several factors, > > including high rates of air pollution in northern Italy, high rates > > of > > smoking, and the high proportion of old people (Italy has the > > second oldest > > population in the world, and 87 percent of deaths are patients over > > 70 > > years old). > > > > > > > > Staffing levels in hospitals are inadequate. > > > > > > > > But there is also an issue in recording the cause of death. In > Italy all > > who die in hospital with the virus are assumed to be dying as a > > result of > > the virus, though most of them also have at least one other disease. > > > > > > > > Chris Slee > > ________________________________ > > From: Marxism <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > on behalf of John > > Reimann via Marxism <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > > > Sent: Friday, 20 March 2020 10:56:34 AM > > To: Chris Slee <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > > > Cc: John Reimann <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > > > Subject: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates > > > > > > > > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > > ***************************************************************** > > > > > > > > I was just checking the latest mortality statistics. According to > the site > > below, the mortality rate of those counted is a massive 8.3% in > > Italy, > > while it's a minuscule 0.28% in Germany. Presumably a large part of > > that > > difference is due to Italy having missed thousands of cases, thus > > having > > reduced the total number. But that massive of a difference? Does > > anybody > > have any idea how to explain it? > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2kuIKZC6pBYubhUdS_M-Rsp3OOwZ9b0mHCzgLD-dTr64gAhBMR-vI34ss#countries > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- Subject: Digest Footer _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm To change your settings: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu//listinfo/marxism > ---------------------------- End of Marxism Digest, Vol 197, Issue 43 **************************************** _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/wytheholt%40cox.net _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
