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First off, why isn't Matt speaking for himself. Talk about putting words in mouths... Secondly, Matt said "this is true even in their [the abolitionists] ostensible role as provocateurs..." OSTENSIBLE: adj. & noun A adjective: 1. Able to be shown or exhibited; presentable. Also, made or intended to be shown. 2. Declared, professed, expecially while concealing the actual or genuine; pretended but not necessarily real. 3. That presents itself to or is open to view. Oxford English Dictionary. It's at this point we ask Matt to take the microphone and tell us which definition he was intending. I thought number 1 was the most likely candidate. But if he meant number 2, I don't think the abolitionists were professing one thing in order to conceal something else, that something being their actual goals. Thirdly, I don't quite agree that it was the issue of free soil in the territories that drove the Civil war. The free soil "yeoman" farmers of the Northwest territories were not blind expansionists, accumulating soil solely for the purposes of accumulation. The slaveholders on the other hand, while not driven economically toward unimpeded expansion, saw their geographical expansion into new territories as the counterweight to the North's expanding population within the already existing territorial limits of the North. No doubt railroads etc. wanted to expand, needed to expand, and no doubt free soil farming created a greater need for the railroad's than the plantation economy, but the country's leading railroad at the time of the Civil War was the B&O and its management and ownership were hardly tub-thumbers for the Union and against the Confederacy. They were neutralists or at best "hedged" supporters of the Union, who might never have moved off their hedged position, if the Confederacy had not destroyed so much of the railroad during their raids, and retreats, from the Union forces. Were the Northern bourgeoisie, the bigger bourgeoisie motivated by abolitionism? No, no more than the South was motivated by the fear of slave revolts. However, once the battle was engaged, the North's response to the attack had to become abolitionist-- the destruction of the slaveholders' power to secede meant the destruction of the slaveholders' property which had to become the destruction of slaveholders' ability to own human beings as property. If that makes me insane... wait a minute, forget that. Let's move on. Regarding Matt's 2nd paragraph-- that certainly is an interesting thesis-- is there evidence to support the view that the free soil farmers saw slavery as driving down the market price of their land? Is their evidence of these free soil farmers from Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Kansas, etc. demanding the elimination, expulsion, exclusion of black farmers in those territories and states? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Boynton" <[email protected]> Now Artesian says Matt called the abolitionists provacateurs, when what he was actually saying was almost the opposite ("This is true even in their ostensible role as provocateurs, pushing the slaveholders to an overreaction they could have easily "rationally" avoided.") Can't you guys read a little more carefully! If you don't agree with Matt, argue with what he says, don't put words into his mouth. The key idea Matt advanced is that the driving force for westward expansion in the north was "free soil" not abolitionism or opposition to slavery as such. Artesian has in his saner moods said almost the same thing, and Mark probably also agrees with this notion. The deeper implications of "free soil" for the formation of social classes in the United States are hinted at in Matt's second paragraph. Please take a sober moment to read it. ________________________________________________ Send list submissions to: [email protected] Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
