I usually do not post. Take the good, and leave the rest.
Marxmail has degraded over time. But there are limits towhat should be
acceptable to post.
And this is beyond the pale.
JOHN O’BRIEN:
Let’s set aside, how the discussion of Nader’s person lifeand sexuality is
politically irrelevant in way, shape or form to the discussionat hand on Howie
Howkins’ post.
But…
What business of yours or anybody else’s is it what Nader’sperson life or
sexuality is?
What business of anyone here is it?
You say you do not “normally out people” What? You just doso “occasionally”?
When you fancy it? on a Marxist listserve?
What next? Why not talk about other people’s sexuality? Anyone here you'd like
to call out?
Why is Nader’s personal life anyone’s business here?
It is Nader’s business and no-one else’s. He can decide, like anyone else
toshare that with whomever he wants…publicly or privately.
You even make a reference to his religion and family which “kepthim in the
closet”. May be THAT should be a clue that you should keep quiet onthis.
These self -righteous, “I know better than you" acts have createdproblems for
many people, by arrogant individuals who do not respect others ortheir rights
or privacy. And let me be clear: this is not just about Nader, butwhat is
acceptable.
Who do you think you are? Better than the individual todecide what to do? And
when? And in what arena?
Why do you decide when it’s time for someone to come out? andjoin the
community? Are you the gate-keeper to this community?
There is no room for this or “outing “ (John’s own word) anyoneon this list.
MODERATORS:
One should take a very dim view of this. And be clear aboutwhy this is not
acceptable. There is no room for this behavior here. Or is there?in your view?
WTF?
On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 12:56:20 PM CST, John Obrien
<[email protected]> wrote:
Let me make this clear - in response to Howie Hawkins defense of Ralp Nader
whom in 2000 I supported his GP Campaign for presidentand I left the Green
Party in 2004 when the same Green Party leaders undemocratically refused to run
Ralph Nader again for a "safe states strategy"
Ralph Nader who just turned 90 years old - is LONG TIME PAST - that he comes
out of the closet.I normally do not Out people who are not doing things
actively against the Gay Community - but it is time that Ralph Comes Out.
He has nothing to lose and can be of help to join a Community under attack and
that he can be proud of.Back in 1965, General Motors Corporation began a effort
to promote a smear campaign about Nader's sexuality in his being a Gay man.His
family AND religion kept him quiet and at much distance from anything seeming
"queer".
Ralph can now safely COME OUT and be part of his Community.
From: Howie Hawkins <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 8:39 AMTo: [email protected]
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [marxmail] What Is Left? In Nader’s first presidential campaign in
1996, he infamously said “I don’t do gonadal politics” in response to a
question about the Green Party’s support for gay marriage. Nader wanted to
center his messaging on corporate power and economic class issues. But the
backlash to that statement made him quickly realize he could not dismiss social
issues and he began taking progressive stands on them, including supporting gay
marriage and abortion rights.
Solnit’s slight of Nader is may be an oblique reference to this 1996 gaffe.
And, since she references 2000 and reproductive rights, Solnit could be also
recalling a concerted campaign against by leaders of NOW against Nader late in
that year’s campaign. It was disingenuous because Nader that had been clear in
supporting abortion rights and had endorsed NOW’s platform months before.
Democrats who continue to this day bashing Nader in diatribes against all Green
“spoiler” candidates would get these references.
— Howie Hawkins
Rebecca Solnit:
I’d argue that because of its intersectional understanding of both problems and
solutions, this left is more radical—radically inclusive, radically
egalitarian—than those who treat race and gender as irrelevancies or
distractions (including the men, from Ralph Nader in 2000 on, who’ve been
dismissive of reproductive rights as an essential economic justice as well as
rights issue). Perhaps it’s seen as less radical because bellicosity is often
viewed as the measure of one’s radicalness.
Mark Baugher: I'm clueless about this. In 2000, Nader's running mate was Winona
La Duke, an indigenous woman who strongly supports reproduction rights. In
2004, it was Peter Camejo, a man who strongly supported reproductive rights
from a socialist perspective. What am I missing?
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