https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/foia/2024-10-18/national-security-archive-director-featured-peter-bergens-room-podcast
(transcript)

The 35-minute podcast is available at *audible.com*
<https://www.audible.com/podcast/Episode-72-Can-Exposing-American-Secrets-Make-You-Safer/B0DJWQR2T7>
.


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