First, the Klein article is definitely the one being cited by "progressive Zionists". It is well argued and...sits behind a paywall at the Atlantic. This magazine has become a sort of liberal version of Neo-Conservatives, and is very, very Zionist in its outlook. It looks to the corporate wing of the Democrats as the future. Enough said on that.
A few points on John's writings. Factually, he makes a misstep: No, the legacy of Jabotinsky's Revisionist Movement (or Revisionist Party) is not the Stern Gang. Jabotinksy's movement in Palestine was the Irgun. This is the group Manahcim Begin joined in the 1930s and why, during WWII, the British imprisoned him as a German symp (along with, and for the same reason, though I think at separate prisons, Anwar Sadat). Second point, perhaps a bit more contentious, is John's comment thusly: > > Up until the rise of the Nazis and the takeover of the socialist movement > by Stalin, the great majority of Jews in Europe did not support Zionism. > They supported the Bund. > > Not actually accurate. First, the Nazis didn't "rise" really until the > Depression. Until then they were one of a dozen Fascist or Fascist type > right wing German nationalist groups. Up until the Russian Revolution and > in Eastern Europe, no where else outside of Yiddishkite were the Bund the > majority. Specifically in Poland and parts of Ukraine and Belyrus. By > 1919, most Bundists themselves had dissolved into the Communist Parties of > the area. The Bund had no presence among non-Yiddish speaking Ashkenazi > Jews such as Hungarian Jews (who spoke mostly German and Hungarian), > French Jews (speaking French), German Jews who rejected socialism given' > their middle class loyalties and whom all spoke German, and so on. > However, I understand his point about this in that ALL Jews, for the most > part, rejected Zionism...perhaps considering it Utopian fantasy than a > hard ideological position (outside the Bund of course). > > Klein, in particular, ignores all this, and John rightly points this out, > his half-truths totally ignore the condition of Jews and their liberation > after > the October Revolution and the Bolshevik promotion (Via the Communist > Party's Jewish section) of *real Jewish culture* via Yiddish language > soviets, party sections, schools, theater, etc etc. What Klein focuses on > is the suppression of Zionism and the virtual outlawing of the Jewish > religion, > exemplified by the banning of Hebrew and Hebrew schools. Personally this > was idiotic and counter productive and unnecessary. As I often promote, > Irving Howe's World of our Fathers is a profound telling of the story of > Jewish proletarian culture and where it was strongest (first Poland, then > the U.S., then back to the U.S.S.R). Klein ignores all of Yiddishkite and > basically adopts the racist view that only Hebrew represents the Jewish > people. > > I don't agree with John on his anti-nationalism rhetoric. I take view the > Bolsheviks adopted, at least in words, that we always support the > nationalism of the oppressed and not the nationalism of the oppressor. > That would of simplified John's hit on the issue of "Self-determination". > > John's best point, IMO, is something I alluded to above in my own words > about the faux-concept of the "Jewish People". John writes succinctly: > > > > The J ewish people were never a true nation, not even just European Jews. > Jews in eastern Europe tended to speak Yiddish (which the Zionists > rejected) whereas the Jews in France spoke French. They had different > lifestyles. The only thing they had in common was their religion. > > This is the crux of most if not all of the Zionist arguments that both Jones and Klein argue for. Zionism is a political-religious movement poising as an ethno-nationalist one. It ultimately adopts the anti-Semite's perspective that Jews are "Jews first" and citizens of the countries they reside in a far and away second. This is one of the most disgusting aspects of Zionism: their agreement that Jews are "The Other". David > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#42604): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42604 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/120402323/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
