On Wed, Jul 29, 2026 at 10:40 AM, Mark Baugher wrote: > > 1. Deskilling is part of the process that no doubt leads some people into > urban mining. I thought of it when you mentioned health care and how there > has been a proliferation of "assistant" positions such as doctors > assistant, anesthesiologist assistant, nurses assistant, etc. as a means > of reducing the number of trained, credentialed workers and increase the > number of less skilled and lower-paid people. > > 2. Are urban miners proletarians that produce surplus value? I stopped on > this since they work for themselves and sell their product at market rate. > But if we think of the collection centers as employers, then they are > producing surplus value to the centers. > > >
Our Good Comrade, Thank you for your reading and your commentary. Agree with your observation about "deskilling". As regards whether the UM and surplus value, there was (and is) a reason for the essay's title, part of which is "Proletarian Independent Worker." It may have been clearer if a slash (/) had been placed between proletarian and independent worker (hence 'Proletarian/Independent Worker') as these workers could be seen as a hybrid of classes. You hit upon this nexus with your question/statement as to whether the UM produces surplus-value; while you state quite clearly--and I agree--that they "work for themselves". And hence cannot be fired. Certainly these workers can be refused by this or that recycling capitalist but there is nothing (save an unlikely collusion) that would prevent the UM from the sale of his wares to another competing capitalist. The IW is posited as owning his own means of production and hence with his production 1.) he shares the reward of his labor with no one; while this statement is an absurdity as 2.) if the IW's product produces no surplus-value, for the capitalist then such a capitalist--and this worker's status as a proletarian--there would not be. The answer to this conundrum, I think, lies in the state's intervention in the marketplace. The (state determined) recycling fee is undervalued with a built in-profit margin for the capitalist who purchases the UM's recyclables. A built-in margin of surplus-value that must have, could only have, be directly funded by the labor of the UM and indirectly so by the 'recycling fee' paid by the consumer at its point of purchase. The state charges a fee affixed to the good that is then paid by the retail commodity purchaser. Assuming that this 'purchaser' does not recycle on his own, these 'nuggets' are then 'mined' by the UM from the trashcans (think of them as mines with the recyclables being veins of greater or lesser value (aluminum as opposed to glass)) and from there transported to the recycling center and purchased by its capitalist. The state then repurchases these from that capitalist at a rate higher than that paid by him to the UM. But, assuming that the state does not engineer and manage this process as a charity, the amount paid by the state to that capitalist is lower than the amount paid by the retail consumer, it is lower than the amount paid to the recycling capitalist, it is lower than the amount paid to the UMs with the state itself pocketing the difference between the totality of these payments and the fee paid by the retail consumer appropriating part of this surplus-value for itself. The state is then both the bourgeoisie and a bourgeois : i t is the objective manifestation of their will as a class while it joins the producer capitalists, as partner, as a direct participant in the appropriation of realized surplus value. The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie.” https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm ( https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm ) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#42699): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/42699 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/120503234/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
