One last point, you can see that with either model you will still get a very
nearly correct low-side voltage from the load flow in my specific case of
unloaded transformers in parallel (one off-nominal).

 

Because in    that ratio for either YBUS matrix is very nearly the same.  

 



 

 

From: Russ Patterson [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 8:12 PM
To: 'MATPOWER-L'
Subject:  RE: circulating current (MVAR loss)

 

Hi Ray,

 

I believe you are correct - if you ensure that the off-nominal transformer
is added to the model with orientation in the branch data as coming FROM the
low-side TO the high-side it will build the model correctly.  Below is a
snip from my notes PPT and I compare the textbook model (left-hand side) to
the MATPOWER model (right-hand side).

 

Entering the off-nominal transformer branch information like this (with the
low-side as the FROM bus) builds the exact correct model and the load flow
results exactly match those that are found by hand with the textbook
approach.

 

The simple solution appears to require that off-nominal transformers be
entered in branch data with this orientation - otherwise incorrect results
are to be expected.  

 

     

So far I have verified that PW, MATPOWER, PSS/E all agree and have the
incorrect result.  Siemens PSS/CAPE load flow produces the correct result
as-is.   Changing the orientation (as you suggested) in the MATPOWER branch
data for the off-nominal bank will result in it producing the correct
result.  

 

Best regards,

russ

 

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Daniel
Zimmerman
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 11:52 AM
To: MATPOWER-L
Subject: Re: circulating current (MVAR loss)

 

The term "pi-model" may be used to refer to different things, but I think
what I said is still correct. MATPOWER uses an ideal transformer (with
possible complex off-nominal taps) in series with a standard pi-model
transmission line that includes both a series impedance and shunt elements. 

 

If the shunt elements are ignored, the resulting model (series impedance in
series with ideal transformer) can also be represented as a different
pi-model.

 

But it matters whether the transformer is at the "from" bus and the
impedance at the "to" bus or vice versa. And I believe MATPOWER and the
textbooks you are using are identical, except for the convention used for
this orientation.

 

So, if I am correct about that, simply swapping the orientation and
inverting the tap ratio in MATPOWER should result in identical results to
your hand calculations.

 

   Ray

 

 

 

On Jan 4, 2021, at 2:21 PM, Russ Patterson <[email protected]> wrote:

 

I'll take a look, thanks Ray.  But, the pi-model's I'm talking about are to
accommodate an off-nominal transformer.  The pi- model you are talking about
is to accommodate the shunt terms which are not present in my case (bc).
Two different animals, right?

 

russ

 

From:  <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected] [
<mailto:[email protected]>
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Daniel
Zimmerman
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 2:29 PM
To: MATPOWER-L
Subject: Re: circulating current (MVAR loss)

 

Actually, it looks to me like the difference is simply the convention of
which end of the branch has the impedance and which end has the ideal
transformer. If you flip the orientation of the branch in your MATPOWER
case, so that it goes from bus 2 to bus 1 and invert the tap ratio, I think
the MATPOWER results should match the other models exactly, right? 

 

   Ray

 





On Jan 4, 2021, at 12:32 PM, Ray Daniel Zimmerman <
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:

 

Hi Russ, 

 

I suspect the models may not be identical. Are they using the model shown in
the
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmatpower.
org%2Fdocs%2FMATPOWER-manual-7.1.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cruss%40PattersonPowerEng
ineers.com%7C39ce788577f941794e8a08d8b372672f%7C129f4b88f0464380bb358fe60741
29bb%7C0%7C0%7C637456651244185313%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=UZ3HUdq9JeOjP8
H7RBaPW6HlYWZTHW64DMZS%2F1zszPs%3D&reserved=0> MATPOWER User's Manual in Fig
3-1 with an ideal transformer in series with a pi-model? If not, that would
explain the discrepancy.

 

I don't have those books handy, so feel free to send me (off-list please)
the PDFs of the relevant pages, as it would be useful to confirm.

 

Thanks,

 

    Ray

 





On Jan 4, 2021, at 11:19 AM, Russ Patterson < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]> wrote:

 

Hi Ray,

 

I've chewed on this a while and it looks like the MATPOWER approach is
equivalent to the circuit below for the off-nominal transformer (#2).  The
<image001.png> I show is based on <image002.png> for both transformers (#1
is at nominal tap, #2 is at tap of 1.0502).  The <image003.png> below is =
<image004.png>.  This is the <image001.png> that MATPOWER builds.  The
secondary bus voltage is then 0.976 pu.

 

<image005.png>

 

 

 

Below is what you get if you follow the approach that Gross1, Neunswander2,
and Kusic3 use (attached).

 

<image006.png>

 

 

Although the MATPOWER approach and Gross approach result in different
<image007.png> matrices, they result in nearly exactly the same secondary
bus voltage because the ratio of <image008.png> in both are nearly
identical.  

 

It seems to me that the <image001.png> created by MATPOWER may be wrong when
off-nominal taps are used.  I say that with a large dose of humility because
surely I am missing something.  But, it seems clear that either Gross or
MATPOWER is wrong here.  What am I missing?

 

References (I can provide pdf of the pages if needed):

1 - "Power System Analysis", 2ed, Charles A. Gross (p. 204)

2 - "Modern Power Systems", John. R. Neunswander (p. 251)

3 - "Computer-Aided Power System Analysis", George L. Kusic (p. 95)

 

Best regards,

Russ

 

 

 

From:  <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected] [
<mailto:[email protected]>
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Daniel
Zimmerman
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 11:44 AM
To: MATPOWER-L
Subject: Re: circulating current (MVAR loss)

 

I suggest double-checking your calculations against the code in makeYbus.m,
which is pretty straightforward, and the model described in the
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmatpower.
org%2Fdocs%2FMATPOWER-manual-7.1.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cruss%40PattersonPowerEng
ineers.com%7C39ce788577f941794e8a08d8b372672f%7C129f4b88f0464380bb358fe60741
29bb%7C0%7C0%7C637456651244195308%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pkZh4dMIQ2YHvP
WfBsF1U8s3%2FwKaghKUjmC10O9YZHw%3D&reserved=0> User's Manual see Figure 3-1
and equation (3.2). Be sure to keep in mind the orientation of the taps in
the model. 

 

    Ray

 

 

 






On Dec 16, 2020, at 3:52 PM, Russ Patterson < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]> wrote:

 

Carlos - thank you. Very helpful.

 

The YBus I get for my case is below.  I expected Y(1,1) to equal the of this
sum:  (1/j0.1) + (1/j0.09522) + (1/-j1.991) =  j 19.9997 (negative sign is
per coder preference).   Is attached (page 1) not how MATPOWER would modify
the bank #2 impedances before creating YBUS?

 

Yb =

 

Compressed Column Sparse (rows = 2, cols = 2, nnz = 4 [100%])

 

  (1, 1) ->        0 - 19.0663i

 (2, 1) ->        0 + 19.5217i

  (1, 2) ->        0 + 19.5217i

  (2, 2) ->   0 - 20i

 

Best regards,

russ

 

 

 

 

From:  <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected] [
<mailto:[email protected]>
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carlos E
Murillo-Sanchez
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 4:12 PM
To: MATPOWER discussion forum
Subject: Re: circulating current (MVAR loss)

 

Russ Patterson wrote:

Hi - I am still trying to hand calculate the flow into branch 2 from bus 1
to bus 2.  I can't get my results to match MATPOWER.

 

I get Q into the banks from bus 1 of,

                Bank #1:    24.00 MVAR

                Bank #2:  -25.02 MVAr

 

Attached is my short calculation and the .m file.  Is there a way to have
MATPOWER barf out the YBUS matrix?

>> help makeYbus

If buses are numbered consecutively starting from 1 in the bus table (see
ext2int if not), simply type:

>> mpc = loadcase('mycase');
>> [Yb, Yf, Yt] = makeYbus(mpc)

To get all the relevant current injections in the solved case, simply do

>> mpc = runpf(mpc);
>> define_constants;
>> V = mpc.bus(:, VM) .* exp(1i * mpc.bus(:, VA)*pi/180);
>> Ibus = Yb * V
>> Ifrom = Yf * V;
>> Ito = Yt * V;

>From there, compute power injections as

>> Sbusinj = V .* conj(Yb * V);
>> Sfrominj = V(mpc.branch(:, F_BUS)) .* conj(Yf * V);
>> Stoinj  = V(mpc.branch(:, T_BUS)) .* conj(Yt * V);

carlos.

<power.pdf>

 

<image021.png><image007.png><image001.png><image012.png><image014.png><image
022.png><image011.png><image005.png><image013.png><image020.png><image003.pn
g><image019.png><snip.pdf>

 

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