Thanks Tobias. 
I appreciate your answer. 
I will read it carefully few more times, and probably I will be asking lots of 
questions on Matterhorn.

Please, do not get me wrong, I am not complaining... I can write a huge list of 
Matterhorn pros! You are really doing a great job here.


-----As you say:

I will think of some example documentation, and put it here, you will be able 
to say if it's correct or not. We all are probably very busy, I have like three 
projects I am working on, and Capture Agents is one of them. 

-----As you say:
I attended few dev meetings, however it was a long time ago, so I was just 
listening. 

-----As you say:

Tobias! Nearest unconference is in Boston! I am hoping to be there. I have just 
booked a ticked, and a place to stay in Boston (my passport just expired but 
Ministry of the Interior is just printing the new one, hope that they will make 
it)



I see that Matterhorn project is moving fast forward. I was using Matterhorn 
1.3. // I'll upgrade to Matterhorn 1.4.
Some examples of a very good job, that amazed me:


For example (of a good job). 
----------------------------------
1. in 1.3. there was an annoying ingest bug, I fixed in my copy of MH1.3, and 
here it is --- solved in MH1.4

2. in 1.3. editions of episodes was missing, now here they are in MH1.4. (I 
managed to move them to MH1.3) BTW - as far as I noticed you are using DELETE 
EPISODE / ADD EPISODE --to edit it. If browser will crash, or Internet 
connection will break --> episode will be lost (I will tell my engineer to 
check it with MH1.4 and post as a minor issue with of course a patch applied).

3. Lots of new functionality was added. I was amazed how fast. 


4. The jQuery code for admin pages was changed! Now it's just better I think. 

5. I complained about MH 1.4 not compiling with openjdk-6, added some minor 
changes to compile it, then once I had some time to investigate those problem 
it turned out to be compiler's problem (as far as I know, i proposed you a 
patch), a while ago I have checked the status of a bug --and it was there that 
it's compiler problem. It's amazing to observe how this project grows.
 

Sorry for  pointing out what I do not like about the project, as you say it may 
be a bad way to introduce myself, I just wanted to point out why documentation 
is important for on open source project. However, I have noticed that majority 
of open source project do not have it. 


I really like Matterhorn, you have done a lot of great work on it, and I am 
hoping to contribute some code, probably for capture agent.... well as you 
said: I'll look into it and just develop it, and put it here.

Thanks again!


--- On Wed, 5/23/12, Tobias Wunden <[email protected]> wrote:

> From: Tobias Wunden <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Opencast Matterhorn] documenting Matterhorn Entities - how to 
> start.
> To: "Opencast Matterhorn" <[email protected]>
> Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2012, 9:30 PM
> Hi Pawel,
> 
> > PROPOSAL:
> > =================
> > I would like to normalize all the content inside
> Matterhorn.
> > I would like to make it 2NF or 3NF.
> > 
> > Of course I am not thinking about having a proposal of
> SQL database tables, I am thinking about normalizing the
> content as if it was a SQL.
> > For example:
> >  -right now each workflow contains a copy of
> MediaPackage.
> >  -each episode contains two(!) copies of
> MediaPackage.
> >  -each workflow and episode contains a copy of
> serie.
> >  -each published index contains a copy of serie.
> > 
> > So.. once you change title of a serie, to make it
> affect a published episode (published mediapackage -- who
> knows what is correct!?!) you have to retract it and
> re-publish.
> 
> You are looking at different problems here and it seems they
> are being conflated, so let's clarify what we are talking
> about.
> 
> Workflows:
> It is correct that every workflow contains a working copy of
> the media package. Also, the mediapackage contained within
> the workflow contains a reference to the series document (if
> applicable).
> 
> Episodes:
> I am not sure how an episode contains multiple copies of
> that Mediapackage. I assume you are talking about the
> episode service, which is the central place for storing a
> recording in the latest stage (versions are being worked on
> as we speak). So an episode *equals* a mediapackage and does
> not contain one. Again, the episode contains a reference to
> the series (if applicable).
> 
> Search service:
> I assume that by "published index" you are referring to the
> search service. This service contains copies of the
> *published* mediapackage as well as a copy of the series
> metadata so it can return search results based on the
> mediapackage's metadata as well as the series.
> 
> Now to your use case: If you want to change the title of a
> series, a few things need to happen (and actually *do*
> happen as of 1.3):
> 
> 1) The title needs to change in the series service
> 
> 2) The series service needs to send a notification out to
> other services about that change
> 
> 3) The other services (search and episode service) need to
> update their metadata so that searches will return results
> based on the serie's new title.
> 
> As indicated above, all this is working in 1.3, so there is
> no need to retract and republish. Matterhorn is a service
> oriented application, which implies that there needs to be
> some kind of communication between these services and also
> that there may be redundant data, as there should in general
> be no hidden inter-service contracts based on common data
> structures. So reading up on service oriented software and
> OSGi in particular may give you quite a few answers on why
> some things have been architected in Matterhorn the way they
> are.
> 
> > REASONs:
> > =================
> > 1.
> > Matterhorn is growing fast. There is a bunch of people
> who know it well, but those people cannot take care (or can
> they?) of implementing everything  by themselves?
> > How do you imagine new developers joining the project,
> that is not documented.
> 
> One great way of joining the project is to start
> contributing by documenting what you found is missing. I am
> serious about it. There currently is no book called "inside
> matterhorn", and as long as that's the case, people
> interested in joining will have to do some learning from
> code as well as from the wiki.
> 
> In addition, a lot of those parts that are meant to be
> customizable *are* fairly well documented. You seem to be
> looking at changing the underpinnings, which is why there is
> less documentation available - it's not something that has
> been a huge requirement so far (I am in no way saying that
> it would not be a good thing to have).
> 
> > They are working in hurry introducing new bugs, and at
> some point instead of guiding, and drawing a path for the
> project - they will end up being too busy or just tired. [am
> I right? I may be terrible wrong here]
> 
> Not sure what you mean. Are you not introducing bugs when
> coding on your devices? I do agree that there are new bugs
> showing up whith new features in Matterhorn, but I would not
> go as far as putting it in a way that this is the main goal
> for Matterhorn developers. Also, every time you have been
> asking on list you got an answer, correct? Does that not
> count as guidance? I personally have month-old patches
> sitting on my machine pending review that I provided to you
> based on your input when you started building the Matterhorn
> integration of NCast's devices.
> 
> I would also appreciate if you could go into more details as
> to what kind of path for the project you are looking for.
> Matterhorn is an open source project with a number of people
> and institutions working on it. As a result, there are
> multiple "paths" that this project is taking. Some
> institutions are looking into adding semantic features to
> Matterhorn, while others focus on the learning aspect.
> Entwine is generally interested in making the software more
> robust and easier to manage. If you are looking for
> information on what is being worked on that you don't find
> in the wiki or on list, you are invited to join the virtual
> developer meetings and become a participant at the
> (un)conferences.
> 
> > 2.
> > Documenting the project doubles it's value, because ---
> other people can keep on developing it.
> 
> Again: documentation does not just magically appear, and
> since this is not a product that some company is selling,
> there is nobody in charge of getting it done. It's everyone,
> instead, including yourself. Either resources or money have
> to be thrown at the problem to solve it (aside from people
> that actually have the required knowledge in the areas of
> documentation or people willing to dive into the area, learn
> and document).
> 
> > 3.
> > People like me can either spend 6 months investigating
> every part of the code, and then start adding something or
> read about it on wiki pages, and then try to force some kind
> of idea, or may learn about the part that they are
> interested in in a week.
> 
> Correct.
> 
> > 4.
> > Saying what will work how, and designing it is usually
> faster than implementing it. So: adding episodes tab, and
> it's functionality can take a week or two on a paper, get
> approved --and then jobs can be assigned and everything will
> be working fine.
> 
> What you are looking for has most likely been implemented.
> It is due to a lack of consensus and then resources that
> part of it has not come to realization, not primarily the
> lack of knowledge. If you have resources to spend, get
> involved with the developers and start discussing possibnle
> approaches. Again, this is not a company with a CEO that is
> telling their developers what to do. It is a community of
> shared interest, and consensus needs to be reached in order
> to implement it. If this is not the way you like it, you are
> free to take the code and create your own version, that's
> looking exactly the way you want it. If you want others to
> help you, you need to invest the time and resources to reach
> that consensus, then to build it.
> 
> > 5.
> > It will enable real C&A. For example:
> > I have changed a title of an episode, ... but it's
> still the same in Media Module.
> > 
> > Bug or design ?
> > 
> > Serious bug?
> > 
> > Minor bug - that will be handled in 6 months, and ruing
> all existing installations.
> > 
> > Now serious C&A is not possible.
> 
> Not sure what you mean. Open a ticket, show up at the dev
> meetings to talk about it if it's of real interest to you,
> and don't forget to bring resources that can help fix the
> problem if you *need* it to be solved in a timely manner.
> 
> > 6.
> > I cannot imagine people seriously developing Matterhorn
> without this kind of stuff. Auto generated spec is very
> useful for developers but -- you will never know if
> something is missing there, without looking at from a
> distance. I am not talking about details (rest parameters),
> I am talking about drawing a patch for next 5 or 6 years...
> 
> Again, this is up to the community. Since the community
> keeps changing, that path for the project will inevitably
> change as well.
> 
> > Once we will figure out what is an episode, what is a
> workflow, we will be able to think of distributing stuff to
> youtube. Otherwise? What do you want to distribute?
> > -Mediapackage?
> > -Episode?
> > -Workflow? :-)
> > 
> > Yes. It's working. Something is working. Somebody
> published something to youtube. But how many design bugs was
> introduced. None. Because implemented code is a design. Once
> I will change the ways workflows are displayed on a
> Recordings page, I will change entire design on Matterhorn,
> since there is no design.
> 
> Not sure if this is a good way of introducing yourself and
> the way you would like to work to the community. But this is
> of course completely up to you...
> 
> > FIRST STEP.
> > ======================
> > I have to do it myself, propose it to the community.
> > However I would appreciate help:
> > 
> > 
> > (1)
> > Explain me what needs to be gone to have idea of
> developing this spec approved.  - I can start getting
> an approval.
> 
> Detail what you want to achieve in an e-mail to list and
> include mock-ups if it's design work. Uses cases generally
> help a lot. Don't forget to include who you think will be
> doing the actual work and what a possible timeline would
> be.
> 
> > (2)
> > Vote and/or share your thoughts on it.
> 
> You will certainly get the feedback you are looking for.
> 
> > (3)
> > I do not want to duplicate work. Let me know where to
> look for parts of it that already exist, if there are any -
> but I haven't found none.
> 
> Unless we know what you would like to achieve in more
> detail, it is difficult to tell whether there is work that
> you can build on.
> 
> > (4)
> > Help needed - I need people that I will have to
> consult.
> > What I want to do it dig into Matterhorn code,
> > figure out what is
> > Mediapackage
> > Episode
> > etc...
> 
> Again, you will find those people on list.
> 
> Looking forward to your detailed proposal.
> 
> Tobias
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