I agree to some extent. Certainly the RM is a core, privileged service. The 
scheduler is key but need not run as root (unless want to use msub) - and we 
don't.

Note that both the RM and scheduler have manager (and operator) roles.  Much of 
the day-to-day management can be done without root privilege.

-- Gareth

________________________________

From: Jerry Smith [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2009 2:27 AM
To: George Wm Turner
Cc: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; 
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Mauiusers] [torqueusers] Philosophical Question


I couldn't agree more.  For us at Sandia, the system is useless without the 
Batch Server and Scheduler.

For example, policy is set with this software ( priorities, limits etc.), who 
wants that in the hands of the users?  It would be the Old West with everyone 
"shooting" everyone else's jobs.  

Or for another example maybe borrowing from Mad Max, "Two jobs enter, one job 
leaves".

All kidding aside, we consider it system software, and it is treated as such.  
Look at many of the cluster HPC stacks; Rocks/SUNHPC/Warewulf  they all include 
scheduling software as base needs within the distro.


--Jerry 


George Wm Turner wrote: 

        TORQUE/PBS (and its scheduler; MAUI/MOAB) runs as root and spawns jobs 
in the name of the user; it's the responsibility of the SysAdmin.
        
        george wm turner 
        high performance systems
        812 855 5156

        On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:16 AM, <[email protected]> 
wrote:
        
        

                All,
                 
                In the company I work for, we have had an ongoing debate over 
several years regarding the management of Resource Managers and Schedulers like 
SGE, TORQUE and MAUI, MOAB, etc.  The basic difference comes in whether or not 
these software technologies should be or are considered as middle-ware or 
system software.  Thus, as middle-ware, user communities would/could be 
responsible for their administration and management.  While on the other hand, 
if it is considered system software, it would be the IS/IT organizations' 
responsibility to administer and maintain.
                 
                My argument has always been that it is these software 
technologies that establish clusters from disparate building block systems to 
create a new meta-system if you will.  And that as such, these technologies 
provide similar functionality as RMs and Schedulers at the building block 
system level and therefore should be considered systems software.  Further, all 
the documentation and books that I have read regarding cluster architecture 
suggest (but are not specific) that these software technologies are considered 
necessary to establish the cluster, regardless of whether or not applications 
are to be executed on the cluster.  And, in fact this is clearly the case.
                 
                Others in our organization argue that because these 
technologies are NOT delivered with the building block systems as part of their 
Operation System software or libraries, they play more the function of many 
middle-ware products today and should be considered middle-ware.  Doesn't 
middle-ware by definition facilitate some interaction between applications and 
the system other than the use of normal operating system or file system 
services?  I would consider packages such as Websphere, Java, Oracle in some 
cases, and even VMWARE as middle-ware.
                 
                As users of these technologies, I am interested to know how 
you: 1) define these technologies; and 2) manage them within your 
organizations...IT or User groups.  All inputs are welcome.
                 
                 
                        Thanks,
                        Stewart
                 
                 
                 
                 

                _______________________________________________
                mauiusers mailing list
                [email protected]
                http://www.supercluster.org/mailman/listinfo/mauiusers
                

_______________________________________________
mauiusers mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.supercluster.org/mailman/listinfo/mauiusers

Reply via email to