thank you for all the valuable input. our production machine will run IBM AIX Unix and weblogic 7, will this be ok? Will maverick work?
-----Original Message----- From: Schnitzer, Jeff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mav-user] Maverick vs Webwork vs Struts Obviously I'm biased, but I'll throw in my $0.02: I used Struts and WebWork prior to starting Maverick with Scott. I found both frameworks to be fairly frustrating for various reasons (YMMV - also, my knowledge of both is about a year old at this point). Struts seems to be far too complicated for what it does. There is a large amount of API and a truly vast quantity of code behind it, yet I can't really figure out why. It didn't work with the version of Orion I was using at the time, and when I went through the Struts code to debug it I found crazy bits of kruft like a reimplementation of ResourceBundle. The config file format is pretty nonintuitive and inflexible, especially with regards to how the model is defined (you can't return an arbitrary model from your code). Overall it just felt ill-conceived. I suppose a lot of credit is due to Struts for setting the basic pattern of an MVC web framework, but it needs a complete redesign (which is what I consider Maverick to be). WebWork is a bit more svelte, but peculiar in many ways. It has this idea of a ValueStack which is novel but causes a lot of trouble if you want to use standard templating tools like JSTL or Velocity. WebWork was designed around its own JSP tag library and it takes some pretty sophisticated adapter code to get away from that. In the beginning, the WebWork team was very antagonistic towards XML config files so all configuration was done with properties files; they later added a crude XML config you could use instead, but it was (and probably still is) pretty primitive. Unfortunately, WebWork has gotten progressively more wacky to the point where I can barely understand the logic of the stock Jive skin (which uses WW). The main points for Maverick, IMHO: . Simplicity - it's a lot easier to come up to speed on than Struts or WebWork. . View independence - Velocity support in Struts is not bad these days, but by and large both Struts and WebWork are still very JSP-oriented. Maverick was created from the beginning to be used with XSL, Velocity, and JSP... or any other templating technology you can think of. . Transformation pipelines - most of the benefits of Cocoon2 without, uh, Cocoon2 :-) Featurewise, this is probably the most dramatic difference between Maverick and the others. Near as I can tell there is nothing like this in Struts or WebWork and it is an incredibly useful feature. . Shunting - cool way of internationalizing (or adding browser-specific behavior to) your application The main points for Struts, IMHO: . A very large user base and a very active mailing list. You can buy books about Struts (and with its complexity, you may very well need to). . Kitchen sink is included. I personally prefer a "best of breed" approach and can't see why anyone would want, for instance, a database connection pool thrown in with their MVC framework when almost every appserver provides one, but your tastes may vary. The main points for WebWork, IMHO: . I don't really see any. Maybe it has tight integration with the rest of the OpenSymphony suite, but I doubt there is anything that could not easily be reproduced with Maverick. This description may be coming on a little strong, but I'm willing to sustain the debate :-) Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -----Original Message----- > From: Eelco Hillenius [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 1:49 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Mav-user] Maverick vs Webwork vs Struts > > Hi, > > That depends very much on your own taste. I have done several projects in > Struts and Maverick and personally I like Maverick best. Some of my > collegues however favour Struts. The difference between Struts and > Maverick > is that Struts - IMHO - tries to be a framework that does everything you > can > imagine in a webapp for you, whereas Maverick is a lightweight framework > that provides the basic MVC functionality (but does this excellent). With > Struts (and webwork for that matter) you get a load of custom tags, a way > of > handling input etc. Maverick just provides a solid core. > > Now, here's why I favour Maverick: > 1. I like the transform pipes. I *hate* working with Struts/Tiles. I would > not say it's bad stuff, but working with seperate parts (even files) of > configuration really gets me bored. Moreover the transform idea of > Maverick > gives you a very powerfull and flexible tool to do the same stuff that > Tiles > does. > 2. I never liked the struts forms (more configuration). I like the open > idea > of Maverick that gives you the freedom to do it how you think is > appropriate > for the situation. You want do it the Struts way? That's okay. But you can > do it several ways as well. > 3. And here's maybe the strongest Maverick pro: it's darn flexible. The > framework is solid and easy to understand. And extending the framework is > very easy as well. Samples how to do this are included. > > This said, I have to admit that some collegues like Struts better as it > gives you clearer way to work (or - less freedom ;-)) and Struts is very > complete (or - heavyweight). > > If you've got time, play a bit with both. If not, I would say Maverick is > better for people with extensive experience in developping webapps and > want > to have a framework that does the MVC thing (and does it well) and want > complete flexibility to do things their own way. Struts is probably better > for teams with less experience that can benefit from a straightforward way > of working. > > About webwork: I see it gets a lot of attention lately. I never tried it, > but reading it it gives me the idea of doing something between Struts and > Maverick. I like the Open Symphony initiative, but so far I haven't been > too > impressed with the completeness of their stuff (several projects - like > OSUser - have a good start but never seem to be finished). > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Butt, Dudley > Sent: dinsdag 18 maart 2003 10:06 > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: [Mav-user] Maverick vs Webwork vs Struts > > > Hi, > > I am in the process of making a decision in our corporate division as to a > web developemnt framework. > > Basically, what we need is a web-development framework. We want to develop > for a Java Environment. > We will deploy to BEA Weblogic 7 SP 1 on Win2000 and IBM AIX. > We probably won't need to port our stuff to Applets or Swing. > We may use Jasper reports and Webservices later on, as provided for by > Weblogic. > > Which one will be the best to get our job done!!!! Please help > > Many thx > dudley > > > NOTICE: > > This message contains privileged and confidential information intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > Any review, retransmission, dissemination, copy or other use of, or > taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or > entities other than the intended recipient, is prohibited. > > If you received this message in error, please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail, facsimile or telephone and thereafter delete the > material from any computer. > > The New Africa Capital Group, its subsidiaries or associates do not > accept liability for any personal views expressed in this message. > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Does your code think in ink? > You could win a Tablet PC. Get a free Tablet PC hat just for playing. > What are you waiting for? > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?micr5043en > [INVALID FOOTER] > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Does your code think in ink? > You could win a Tablet PC. Get a free Tablet PC hat just for playing. > What are you waiting for? > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?micr5043en > [INVALID FOOTER] ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Does your code think in ink? You could win a Tablet PC. Get a free Tablet PC hat just for playing. What are you waiting for? http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?micr5043en [INVALID FOOTER] NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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