So you's don' t forgets ...
<kd> I guess that my point is that if I (non-talented semi-programmer)
can get an application off the ground reasonably painlessly, then it's
got potential to be um ... a PHP killer :). But it needs to make the
transition from a clever thing to a simple yet powerful tool.
--- Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
--- pjsz sets mode +i pjsz
--- pjsz sets mode +s pjsz
--- pjsz sets mode +w pjsz
--> You are now talking on #maypole
--- kd gives channel operator status to pjsz
<-- kd has quit (Quit: kd)
--> kd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #maypole
--> davebaird ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
has joined #maypole
<kd> davebaird Morning!
<davebaird> How's tricks?
<kd> Not bad. Too many people wanting to talk to me at work rather
than telling me to piss off and come back when I've finished. I'll be
back on the BeerDB some time in the next couple of days I think. It's
my off week for the Maypole-related job.
<kd> I saw you're thinking of going the Apple way. I'd recommend it.
Not that it's perfect, just the least deficient platform around at the
moment.
<davebaird> Yes. The biggest deal for me at the moment is mounting
remote WebDAV shares. Can do it in OS X, Linux with difficulty,
Windows XP, but not FreeBSD.
<davebaird> Plus, OS X is cool, KDE is quite cool, Windows is ... not.
<kd> More than one mouse button confuses me these days, and that's
after 6 months!
<davebaird> That's the big thing that's been putting me off! How can
you live with just 1 button?
<kd> Control+click = button 2, Alt-click = button 3 (I think, don't
use X11 much).
<davebaird> Hmm. Nobody make a 2 button + wheel mouse for OSX?
<kd> Anything that's a valid usb/bluetooth device will do. I'm an
emacs user, so I don't hold much with this mouse stuff.
--- pjsz gives channel operator status to davebaird
--- pjsz gives channel operator status to kd
<pjsz> Uggh. Emacs. I could never get good enough at hitting the ctrl
button to use emacs. It was always in such a hard to reach spot on
keyboards.
<pjsz> Now though I have a Kinesis contoured keyboard and the ctrl key
is easy to hit with the thumb.
<kd> It's just that I've been using it since 1875, and I'm not
prepared to use anything new at this stage.
<teejay_afk> ullo
--- teejay_afk is now known as teejay
<davebaird> hey
<pjsz> understood :) A few months ago i switched to DVORAk. I'v e had
it with learning new keyboard skills.
<davebaird> I still type with 2 fingers.
<pjsz> Hee. Less likely to get RSI that way maybe.
* teejay tries to remember what has pissed him off on this maypole application
<davebaird> teejay, svn is down again. I have a pretty decent svn
setup on my public server, I think it'd make sense if we moved it
there, what do you think?
<teejay> so far untaint has been pants
<teejay> davebaird, sounds good
<kd> OK, I"m off to bed. Depending on what happens tomorrow, I might
look into the beerdb_debug_redux tomorrow. I'm supposed to be writing
and in meetings, but those two don't mix that well. And I can't code
at all by this time of night.
--- pjsz has changed the topic to: Things that piss me off about Maypole
<davebaird> Sleep well, dream code.
<teejay> yeay - #maypole reaches the default 'show channels with 3 or
more people' criteria in xchat
<teejay> now we just need a bot :)
<davebaird> That means we officially exist?
<pjsz> I've had it with setting display_columns, list_columns,
edit_columns, view_columns, and untaint_columns
<teejay> davebaird, certainly more visible
<teejay> pjsz, yeah
<davebaird> You should look at FormBuilder - you get a *_columns
method for every template!
<davebaird> (I'm re-thinking that bit...)
* teejay would just like 'I have these columns, they're like this..'
<teejay> could probably do an 'assume field is text unless told otherwise'
<davebaird> These methods are really there to support generic
templates. If you build your own templates, you don't need them.
<teejay> I find them useful
<davebaird> And mostly it's just the developers who have much interest
in generic templates.
<teejay> but you should be able to have a templates that include new
fields without having to edit each template manually
<davebaird> Yes, definitely.
* teejay has spent way too much time editing and re-editing html in
the last 12 months
<teejay> :)
<davebaird> You're either going to need the *_columns methods, or
something equally tedious.
<pjsz> A way to have them automatically configured for you helps.
* teejay plans to make the *_column setting less tedious
<pjsz> Or a better way to set them that making a .pm file and typing ...
<teejay> the key would be to guesstimate
<teejay> then allow over-riding individual columns, etc
<teejay> also being able to set in templates would be quite cool
<pjsz> Dave H has a pretty neat auto config tool. Uses order of DB
table columns setting to get the display_columns list.
<teejay> i.e. list_columns in a template could allow you to set the
order that stuff appears
<teejay> that is quite cool
<teejay> don't know how useful that is
<teejay> irl
<pjsz> You can already set list_columns in a template. It just does
not last past that request. Or i may not be understanding you.
<davebaird> Don't forget ok_columns, whatever the hell that's supposed to be.
<pjsz> ok_columns?
<teejay> pjsz, cool, you understand quite correctly
<teejay> I thought it was ok_tables
<pjsz> ok_tables is cool.
<teejay> This is why the whole Form:: stuff needs reworking
<davebaird> I'm sure there's an ok_columns method, hang on...
<pjsz> No wonder dave has had so much trouble :)
* teejay especially wants access to current.object rather than fucking
about with FOR object IN objects
<teejay> also it would be good to have params, etc in
current.params.foo rather than just foo
<teejay> so that can over-ride in template or where-ever without
losing the values
<teejay> everything must be over-ridable and remain accessible :)
<teejay> that is my golden rule
<teejay> also anything 'magical' should be optional
<davebaird> ...false alarm, Mp::Model::CDBI::order uses ok_columns as
a temp variable.
<teejay> right
<pjsz> so [% cur_params = request.params; cur_params.beer = 'OldWorldAle' %]
<pjsz> will change request.params too 'cause it is a hash ref?
<teejay> *shrug*
<teejay> try it and let me know
<teejay> I meant [% SET foo = 'bar' %] would still allow you to see
the original value of foo via [% current.params.foo %]
<teejay> really need to document how you access stuff in the TT view
<teejay> I didn't know putting [% email %] would pick up the value of
the email param
<teejay> also I was thinking it would be useful to have a trace macro/include
<teejay> davebaird, could you do a trace/dump component for mason
* teejay plans on doing one for TT
<pjsz> Email thing wont. Is that what you want? that may be cool.
<davebaird> Tracing, and any other debugging help we can give, seems
to be where Maypole is weakest, in comparison with RoR etc
<teejay> being able to include a trace block would be neat when debugging
<davebaird> Yep, tracing is easy in Mason
<pjsz> Another thing i'm tired of is setting up relationships.
<teejay> Just a nice standard table, with all the fields, headers, etc
<teejay> and any useful env vars
<teejay> also version
<teejay> would be well handy for debugging stuff
<teejay> also useful for on-list help
<teejay> pjsz, doesn't ::Loader take hints
<davebaird> ::Loader will set up your relationships direct from the
db, except for MySQL.
<teejay> ?
<teejay> I thought it just DTRT
<teejay> even with MySQL
<davebaird> Doesn't set up relationships, unless you encode them in
the table comments, using some sort of convention.
<teejay> right
<davebaird> For other dbs, it'll read the fk definitions and set them
up in CDBI.
<teejay> that needs fixing then
* teejay has code for guessing relationships
<teejay> based on column names
<teejay> pretty sure you can say something is an FK in MySQL - should
be able to find out if there is an FK
<teejay> the schema guessing in autodia, graphviz::DBI, etc seem to
work ok for most common cases
<davebaird> You can in MySQL, not sure if DBD::mysql has caught up, or
CDBI::mysql
<pjsz> Workbench will write proper SQL for the relationships that
Loader should be able understand.
<pjsz> With DBD being so buggy I quit drawing relationships in it.
<davebaird> I looked at the ::Loader::mysql code last night, it looks
in the table comments for relationship info.
<pjsz> I would be leary of any thing that guessed relationships based
on name. Especially the way CDBI people like to name thing.
<teejay> you should be able to provide hints for the non-standard bits
of your schema
<davebaird> Me too - unless it used my naming conventions, which are sane :-)
<teejay> or even naming convention rules
<davebaird> Now there's an idea.
<davebaird> CDBI::Plugin::Relationship::Convention
<teejay> maybe have stuff like 'not_an_fk => qw/void valid/' or something
<davebaird> or is_an_fk => qr/\w+_id$/
<davebaird> or is_an_fk => qr/(\w+)_id$/
<teejay> and 'is_an_fk => { 'foo.bar' => 'pub'}
<teejay> davebaird, those are default :)
<davebaird> sane defaults, cool!
<teejay> of course
<teejay> like I said Graphviz::DBI and autodia, (both of which I
maintain) are pretty good at guessing sane schemas
<pjsz> Perhaps rather than teaching people naming convenion rules ,
just teach them how to write an FK / Index in SQL ?
<teejay> bah - time to write some authentication and sessions
<davebaird> Break it out, package it up.
<davebaird> OK guys, gotta sign out, back later.
<teejay> laters
<pjsz> later
<teejay> bah
<-- davebaird ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
has left #maypole (Leaving)
<teejay> need to log this irc session - keep on saying useful stuff
and worry about forgetting it
<teejay> pjsz, if you have 5 mins can you copy and paste an irc and
send it to the devel list?
<teejay> or just me you dave and david?
* teejay is late on this freelance work
<pjsz> sure.
<teejay> ta :)
<pjsz> teejay, cur_params changes params. Hash ref changes propagate.
So we would have to do a deep copy.
<pjsz> later.
--
pjs
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today
Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam
for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit:
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28&alloc_id845&op=click
_______________________________________________
Maypole-devel mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/maypole-devel
