macdef wrote:
> Larry, I'm not sure what we're talking about anymore. First it was "MP3 is
> better than vinyl." Then it was "CD is better than vinyl." Then it was "CD
> is better than vinyl unless you're one of the very few people in the world
> who can afford a good vinyl system." Now it's "Vinyl is just impractical in
> the real world." Which are we debating now? ;)
OK. Lets go back to the original discussion. MP3 vs vinyl. Let me qualify
what I said based on things that you brought up and real world.
The Average person with at least an average appreciation of sound quality who
has an average HiFi system (say $750 to $1500 street prices- OK I'll throw out
some average gestimate figures: Receiver $350.00; DVD/CD/MP3 deck $250.00+;
speakers $400.00. That comes to $1000.00+ and I don't actually know if you can
find a single disc DVD player that can play MP3's and would cost as much as
$250+ street price. The Apex is way under $200 now).
Now we'll take that system and substitute the $250+ DVD player for a $250+
turntable and cartridge. I'll even go up to $400 if you want. I'll even allow
for Monster cables although I don't know if they really make a difference and I
don't know if it is really fair to include them in an "average" system.
Next, we will take about the average care that is taken by most people for
records. As for the quality of the analog vinyl record, once again, average or
"standard". Since there is no standard for the bit rate of MP3, lets use the
same number as a mini disc.
Under the conditions above, which I will call "real world conditions", I still
contend that a properly made (I'm not saying special processing or super
care-Just not some Joe who is clueless about the proper method of creating a
file) MP3 recording will sound better.
You didn't start off talking about the super system and super quality records
that you quickly changed to What you started out saying was:
macdef wrote:
> Woah! Larry, now you're really out there ;) Vinyl on a good system sounds as
> good as any CD, and FAR better than any MP3.
Just a good system. I think that the $1500 system would be considered a good
system. So you can substitute the word "good" for the word "average" any place
you would like in my statement above.
I'll stand by my original statement, "on a good system, playing a "good" MP3
file, the MP3 file will sound better than a "good" vinyl record.
Most people I know do not wash their records as soon as they take them out of
the sleeve as either you or someone else suggested be done. So doing that would
be considered, to me, more than just "good" care of the record.
I would define "good" care of records (as opposed to extraordinary care) someone
who keeps their records in both the sleeve and jacket. Stores them vertically
at normal room temperature. Wipes them and the needle off from time to time and
occasionally may wash some of them.
The actual statement that I made about MP3's is: "even MP3s are an improvement
over vinyl, cassettes and FM."
I'll stand by that. Improvement is not limited to just how they sound although
I also stand by them sounding better under the conditions that I described above
for most people.
MP3 can be stored on a tiny card. Played almost anywhere. Can fit many more
songs on that little card and put it into a little player. The quality of an
mp3 file will not degrade over time. Vinyl and tape will with each playing on a
"good" system.
So I went from MP3s to CDs and then to musical preference, while you started
defending vinyl on a "good" system and moved to a system so high end and rare
that I will have to travel 3000 miles to hear it.
Now you could say I, "when I said good I was talking about that place in LA.
But that is just "good",
Actually in spite of what seems like a huge disagreement between us, I actually
believe that once we specifically define our terms and conditions we are almost
in complete agreement.
I just said MP3, I didn't say top quality MP3 and you just said "good" not the
very top quality that you can find.
Under the right parameters, MP3 does sound better than vinyl. And under the
right parameters vinyl can sound better than CD.
Larry
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