On Tuesday 22 February 2011, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote: > On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, John Veness wrote: > > On 22/02/2011 12:58, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote: > >> What slows things down (IMHO) it the > >> community whining about how (a) it was all done in secret, > >> (b) how they haven't released it publicly, (c) how there's > >> no public repos, (d) how it's not integrated to > >> bugs.meego.com.... blah blah blah. > > > > Wow. So the problem is the community whining, not the fact that all those > > things happened? > > Community says: Why did you not develop this in an open > manner? > > Answer: If they did, there probably would not be a > pre-alpha preview, yet. > > Why? Instead of working on code, they have to set up the > project with a mailing list, a forum, community meetings, a > category in the BTS. Then they have to work out issues with > the fact that Swype is not FLOSS... but that they want to > use it. People would accuse Intel of betraying open source > because "USING SWYPE IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR MEEGO!!" After > getting all that crap worked out... THEN they can start > working on the code? > > Whatever.
this is kinda an outsider perspective, so to be taken with a grain of alt, however.. to me is more an issue of "we want to have 100% control on it" that is fine, kinda expected and somewhat understandable from a corporate entity, but it can't be expected to work on a community project, it can just cause people feeling joked, and even leaving. > >> If the community is such a valuable part of shipping > >> products on time... where is the community's tablet UX? in KDE we're making one, and is coming along quite nicely, thanks :p and yeah, will take time. why? not for decision making process, we're really light on that (maybe this could vary from community to community, i dunno) but it's just a couple of dudes working on it when they can, every now and then ;) > > You're taking things to extremes now just to make a silly point. > > Designing a > > It's not a silly point. The point is: more community > involvement means longer time-to-market. > > The extreme of this is Debian, who doesn't even set a > release date because they know they can't meet it while the > beaurocracy works things out. this is an example, let's take other ones... take GNOME, it releases every 6 months, take KDE, it releases every 6 months, with *a lot* of features every release, even with the chronic resource scarcity of community-only projects. both have an huge code base that would take years and years, and probably an impressive amount of millions if they were to re-written from scratch behind closed doors. > > But that doesn't mean that community input is useless, and doesn't mean > > that > > I agree: community input is not useless... and is indeed > useful. this becomes hearing feedback from a community of *users*, not anyore a community of developers, and that's ok, but makes it radycally different from any open source project... In Dublin, I heard again and again praising MeeGo on how was different from Android, that shows a very closed development model, with source packages released every now and then, and that's one of the reasons why i still think MeeGo is a really cool project. But now i see parts of the system and quite important ones even are developed in an Android fashion.. and it's perfectly fine, but should be made more clear what parts are a proper opensource project and what not, where one is expected to be able to contribute and where not. Cheers, Marco Martin _______________________________________________ MeeGo-community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-community http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
