----- Original Message ----- > Well the answer is pretty simple as well. Platforms get targeted and > supported based on having someone step up and agree to support them. > The meego-ivi-ia32 images target and support specific platforms based > on contribution from folks that considered the graphics driver for > those platforms to be a key element. Admittedly these folks are trying > to sell hardware by demonstrating their HW specific value to large > vendors. > > My experience with MeeGo has been that we can't do IVI specific > development without managing HW specific dependencies. There are > simply too many different input and output components with differing > driver dependencies and for embedded devices, little Plug and Play > capability. I think these dependencies will be increasing in the > future as more IVI specific features are added. A common generic > default image would probably be limited to VESA graphics and > keyboard/mouse input, a 2D PC image. This would remove the ability to > include any MeeGo applications or applications with rich user > interfaces, including scrollwheels, touchscreen, dual display, > animation, automotive sensors etc. >
Joel, You missed my previous email on this :} I maybe off a little here, but the only driver dependancy that would cause a system to unuseable are video cards drives. Other drivers, if started, would complain a lot - but you could still use the box (then you could go in and stop those drivers from running if you so desired). I bring this up, as you could include/support a range of drivers for a range of other types of hardware and leave out the video subsystem in a default IVI release. > I consider having a small minimal image that runs on cheap widely > available development systems to be a very high priority. I'm hoping > someone is willing to volunteer to maintain a build image in the MeeGo > build system for such a platform. I'd be happy to see any number of > images targeting folks favorite platforms maintained in the build > system. The irony is that before folks can do exciting innovative > applications, someone has to do the grunt work of getting the platform > HW adaptations to work. I am interesting in getting this working on my own carpc... I finally figured out how to get MIC2 installed on my home machine. Now to learn how to configure .ks files and hopefully I can have some images working for systems using video cards supported by the i915 driver (which is already in the repo). Nasa > > regards > Joel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Grigory Abuladze [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 1:45 AM > To: Clark, Joel; Nasa > Cc: [email protected]; Alison Chaiken > Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be > available > > Joel > > It looks like we have misunderstanding here - what I am trying to say > is: > - 1.1 was usable on wide range of HW > - 1.2 suddenly become usable on _VERY_ limited HW > And the answer to question "why?" is somewhat strange. > That's it - as simple as it looks. > > And proposal was simple as well - please keep video driver more > generic by default. > > It would be great to have SandyBridge support, but it isn't main > intention of discussion. > > Regards > > -- > Grigory Abuladze > Application Solutions (Electronics and Vision) Limited. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clark, Joel [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 17 August 2011 18:23 > To: Grigory Abuladze; Nasa > Cc: [email protected]; Alison Chaiken > Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be > available > > We did it because > 1) Sandybridge was never identified as a target platform for the > meego-ivi-ia32 bootable image. > 2) Nobody proposed, planned, resourced or contributed to creating a > bootable IVI image for Sandybridge. > 3) the IVI platforms identified as target the meego-ivi-ia32 bootable > image all are supported by the "wrong" video driver (EMGD) > 4) the QML based applications developed for MeeGo 1.2 ran dog slow > without graphics HW acceleration. > > If anyone wants to propose, plan, resource or contribute to creating a > bootable IVI image for Sandybridge, I would be very happy to provide > my support for their efforts. > The key is to have a kickstart file to build the image, someone to > test the results and fix any issues reported. > > regards > Joel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Grigory Abuladze [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:11 AM > To: Clark, Joel; Nasa > Cc: [email protected]; Alison Chaiken > Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be > available > > > Let me try to explain it from this point: > - Head Unit Manufacturers (xxx xxx) are not yet convinced in IVI > - We are trying to demonstrate them what it will be and how it will > look > - To do it we take ExoPC(WeTab) and provide them demo (sort of) > - Also to simulate what would be possible in case of more time is > spend on optimization and/or what will be feasible in near future we > would like to use Sandy Bridge based tablet. > > This simple way did work up to 1.2 release of ivi... > And the only things why it is now broken - it's because "wrong" video > driver is embedded into release image! > > Why? Why did you do it? > Typing one line in console after installation - is what is "saved" by > embedding EMGD and how many pain and problems it brings? > > I don't see problem in validating IVI only on specific HW and in same > time releasing generic image(s). It will left door slightly open for > everyone else who don't have this HW. > > Thansk > > > -- > Grigory Abuladze > Application Solutions (Electronics and Vision) Limited. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clark, Joel [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 17 August 2011 15:55 > To: Nasa; Grigory Abuladze > Cc: [email protected]; Alison Chaiken > Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be > available > > I apologize for the pain. :-). Actually I've felt quite a bit if it > too when it comes to trying to create a visually compelling experience > on embedded HW systems. We have found considerable HW and driver > specific dependencies. In general the idea was that each platform > champion would provide the adaptations required for their platform. > This would probably have produced multiple sample IVI boot images for > different platforms. So far this has not happened. We have been > struggling with the resources we have just to keep a couple of > platforms adaptations working sufficiently to enable the graphically > rich apps we borrowed from other devices, and voice recognition and > text to speech, and touchscreen all working. I think all of these are > essential to an IVI experience and should at least be able to be > demonstrated on platforms. Same explanation for the Rotary Dial > support, we just have not had enough folks contributing support for > different I/O devices to enable more that the one sample dial. > > But trying to preserve a consumer out of the box experience has proven > to be a hindrance to enabling innovation on a wide variety of > platforms, particularly since the IVI HMI/UX landscape is so varied. > Which is why I suggested moving to a developer oriented out of the box > experience. > > I deeply appreciate the folks like Nasa and Alison who have not only > preserved through the multiple variations and change to MeeGo > direction that have made following MeeGo IVI difficult, but have > continued to contribute their time and knowledge to help the rest of > the Community despite the difficulties. You guys do have impact, > perhaps more so than the large but silent corporate teams that prefer > to stay one step removed from active participation. Any lack of change > in response to your comments is primarily a result of lack of > developers to change the bits. This is certainly the case in the > absence of an IVI build for the S10-3T and Pandaboard etc which we > have really wanted to be able to do, but just have not had folks to > make it happen. > > (with my stupid mail client, I also appreciate being able to top-post > :-) ) > > regards > Joel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nasa [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:28 AM > To: Grigory Abuladze > Cc: [email protected]; Alison Chaiken; Clark, Joel > Subject: Re: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be > availablefo > > Grigory, > > I feel your pain. > > There are some disconnects between what is being developed and > what is being expected. A good place to start reading up on this > is a thread I started back in March "Supported Hardware", see > here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00297.html > (some who have followed this list will remember me bring that > thread up not so long a go). > > Futher investigation reveals that the IVI team has a very specific and > limited view of what constitutes an IVI system, which is aimed more > at commerical entities than the casual potential user. This statement > isn't meant as a knock on anyone, it's more of an observation. Most of > that > hardware isn't readyly available for hobbiest, which is a small set as > it is, > limiting thier involvement. > > The problem is that mixed signals were sent out about this at the > begining of > the Meego project. So the statement from Bug 17351 > (directly related to this thread, read it), "Since we are discussing > hardware that this was never intended for, I am marking Resolved > invalid." > does kinda of get under my skin (1st and only thing I will say on that > comment). > > > I think the idea of seperating the IVI from the UX is/would help > clarify > this for anyone looking to jump in (where the none UX would be the > *official* > item releases). As the direction this effort has gotten clearer, Joel > has > been doing a better job of communicating all of this. > > Nasa > > BTW: The integration of the new drivers isn't the first instance of > this > disconnect -- the touchscreen issue (bug 12777 I believe) is a result > of > the same thinking. As is the inclusions of a specific rotary dial... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Alison > > > > I have to say that 1.2 release has already dropped all of us who use > > ExoPC and other non new EMGD compatible things. > > As I can see 1.1 had sw " rasterizer" as default and thus > > - anyone was able to install it on various HW > > - and add preferable driver later > > > > I have no idea why this way was broken in 1.2 release, but it drops > > out a lot of people. They tried "new" release and it just doesn't > > work > > for them - so they simple walk away to do something for Android or > > iOS. > > I remember list member NASA has provided some "workaround" and it > > was > > quite popular topic ). But not all of us can/want to spend time to > > try > > dancing around to "fix" drivers issue. > > > > I would like to extend your proposal to keep it general and end user > > will decide which HW specific driver to install. And yes - proper > > naming will be definitely helpful here. > > > > Grigory. > > > > -- > > Grigory Abuladze > > Application Solutions (Electronics and Vision) Limited. > > Tel: +44 (0) 1273 409147 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alison Chaiken [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: 16 August 2011 16:55 > > To: Clark, Joel > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be > > availablefor ivi > > > > Joel, what I'm really thinking about is the many Lenovo Ideapads and > > ExoPCs that Intel has generously given to developers: thank you! I > > would hope that as the repos are refreshed, that AppUp participants > > whose expertise is in QML rather than Linux graphics are not going > > to > > get their machines borked if up they "zypper update" from trunk. > > > > I suggest that someone (Bob Spencer, Amar Kona . . . ) make it > > clear what the best update path for developers using this older > > hardware is. Otherwise when 1.3 drops, a lot of folks using older > > HW may be unhappy. It's already a bit confusing about which graphics > > RPMs to use with which Atom processors. Perhaps the EMGD RPMs could > > have "sandybridge" or whatever in the package name. > > > > -- > > Alison Chaiken > > (650) 279-5600 (cell) > > http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ > > INplanatory documentation: that which sucks comprehension right out > > of > > the reader's mind and destroys it. > > _______________________________________________ > > MeeGo-ivi mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-ivi > > _______________________________________________ > > MeeGo-ivi mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-ivi _______________________________________________ MeeGo-ivi mailing list [email protected] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-ivi
