Hi all, Thanks Badri for raising these points, they are helpful.
On Open Collective: beyond the exchanges already shared on this list, there has not been further negotiation that I am aware of, that changes the overall picture. While Open Collective indicated some willingness to discuss pricing or arrangements, we concluded that fees were not the only issue. Ongoing administrative effort, payout handling (including Wise and regional constraints), and reliance on person-specific processes were equally important factors. For that reason, the decision to wind down the programme does not hinge on Open Collective alone, and moving to a different platform would not materially address the underlying concerns. I do recognise that fiscal hosting can be particularly valuable in regions with legal or banking restrictions, including India. At this time, however, I'm not seeing a way for the XSF to offer that service sustainably without recreating the same overhead under a different form. The points about early-stage projects and the value of having an option ready are noted and will be kept on record. They can inform any future discussion of lighter-weight alternatives, such as improving visibility for vetted projects seeking funding. For now, the focus remains on an orderly transition for existing hosted projects rather than designing a replacement programme. Kind regards, Guus On Sat, Dec 27, 2025 at 11:11 AM Badri Sunderarajan <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all and thanks Guus for the update > > > The Board has reviewed the current program and agrees that, at its > > current scale, the effort and administrative overhead are not > > justified. There is consensus to phase out the fiscal hosting program > > in its current form. > > I missed most of the discussion regarding this as I was travelling! This > is not the decision I was hoping for, mainly because I think it's good > for XMPP to have its own funding support rather than rely on more > centralised alternatives like the Open Source Collective, but I do agree > that Open Collective's originally quoted fees were inordinate. > > I just wanted to check if there has been any further communication with > Open Collective regarding this? They seemed open to negotiation, so > perhaps they can get rid of the Wise fees or reduce costs in some other > way, if we ask them. (The quoted discussions were from an email > conversation between Open Collective and myself, who didn't know much > about the details and only wanted to initiate the > discussion. Personally, I think their pricing was made thinking of a few > large projects and didn't take into account a multitude of small > projects like XMPP has). > > (Of course all this is assuming the fees are the main reason for > deciding to discontinue the programme, and low participation etc. were > secondary issues) > > > We plan to handle this carefully, supporting existing hosted projects > > in transitioning to alternative funding mechanisms such as direct > > donations, Liberapay, or other platforms. This will help reduce > > disruption while ensuring fairness to the projects. > > > > Please let us know if you have any immediate concerns or suggestions > > regarding this transition. We aim to ensure a smooth wind-down without > > impacting ongoing project activities. > > Moving forward, I wanted to share some general notes regarding the > Indian situation since that was brought up but not covered. Being from > India, I have been hanging out in the MUCs of and participating in a few > of these projects. That said, what follows is with my "personal hat" > rather than that of any project ;-) > > Besides limited payment options (India is very finicky about letting > payments in), "having a legal entity to collect donations on our behalf" > is also an important service for projects based in India. Indian law > does not allow donations except for very specific purposes like > education, so the way we do it via fiscal host is that the fiscal host > receives donations, and individuals in India then "bill" the fiscal host > for the "work" they do (as far as Indian-facing accounting is > concerned). This is what I've been advised to do for my NLnet grant as > well, to just declare it as income (and potentially pay taxes on it; I'm > "fortunately" under the tax ceiling at the moment). > > I wonder if there is some way the XSF can help this happen regardless of > Open Collective or not (and without putting too much burden on Peter who > has already gone through a rather unpleasant time signing up for Indian > money transfer services before we ended up going for bank transfer!)? > Personally, I had my eye on XSF fiscal hosting for Convo as well once it > got stable after the NLnet grant concluded, so this is something of a > setback (I have Liberapay linked to my personal account but it's a legal > grey area and I'm not sure if I'll be able to continue it). > > Alternatively, perhaps there's some other organisation we're in touch > with who's more in the business of moving money around? We could work > out a system where the XSF vets projects and then passes them on to the > other organisation to do the actual administrative work. > > Finally, regarding participation in the programme: I do think > early-stage projects (that are yet to grow big enough to manage their > own things, but just need a head start) are the ones that get the most > benefit from this programme, so it helps to have the option ready for > when such a project comes up, even if no such projects are there at the > moment. I'm going to be self-centred and pull up Convo as an example > again. Assuming Open Collective fiscal hosting is discontinued, perhaps > we could set up a place to collect names of such projects who think they > would benefit from some kind of fiscal-hosting-type support, and if we > think there's enough interest we can start looking into how they can be > supported? > > I like the idea suggested (I think by Guus, in the MUC?) of continuing > to list projects that are looking for funding. That would help increase > peoples' trust even if the projects are opting to use a less-known > platform for whatever reason. > > Best, > Badri > >
