Haha Not to mention the Jet trucks I was watching them fire up waltzing matilda one day at Calder (i used to live in essendon). They fired up the jets just where the old straight starts and when they revved the thing up all the metal signs attached to the spectator fence around "gloweave" just blew away into the crowd area.. Luckily no crowd!! on the other thread nearly everyone talks about hp or kw ( i can never remember how to convert kw to hp) and i hear others claiming 1/4 mile times I prefer lap times as a way to measure improvement.. In my experience, more hp does not necessarily make for more speed or better lap times. Indeed if it is unusable power u may not even see the 1/4 mile times come down
Original Message ----- From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:21 AM Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? (reminiscing about Pommy Pete) > Mick, > > I was reminiscing the other night. I had a look at a video of the 96 TAC > Nationals. > They are sick puppies alright! 6.6 sec and 220 mph from memory. They were > running supercharged engines on Nitromethane in top bike. The exhaust pipe > exited vertically behind the seat. Good to see at night with 1.5 meter > flames coming out. Bluey howard lost to Alan in 95 after an engine failure > (leg out of bed). Wish I had the footage still. He ghostied the bike at over > 200mph as he couldn't see were he was going due to oil covering his visor! > He was worried the bike was going to tip over so jumped off! > > As you can imagine his post race interveiws were interesting. > > The only thing crazier at the drags is the nitro funny cars. Whoops I forgot > about jet cars. > > Cheers > Trev > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mick ralph [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2001 12:30 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? (reminiscing about Pommy Pete) > > > Ahhhh!! I remember Pommy Pete firing up the twin Kawasaki 1000cc(each) > engined drag bike at Calder in the late 70's..We used to struggle for 100hp > per litre when I was building Superbikes at that time. Petes thing was on > Methanol and had big $$$ spent on it. I think it produced about 300hp but u > had to be crazy or be Pommy Pete Allen to ride it > Man the earth moved for that one!!!!! > cheers > Mick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 6:56 AM > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > I used to go to the drags a far bit a few years back at Calder. > > > > Anyway in the top bike class Phil Howard (what a legend) and Peter Alan > were > > blitzing the Harley's with their Jap twin cam 4 cyl engines (600HP). > > > > I have seen a bit on TV lately and the Harley's were kicking ass. > > > > Can anyone confirm as I'm a bit out of touch with the class now. > > > > Thanks > > Trev > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, 16 November 2001 20:48 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > Seen a Harley with nitrous do a massive wheel stand (almost lost it), and > > pull off from the lights like I have never seen a road bike do before. > > > > Greg > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of mark krawczuk > > Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2001 3:17 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > HI, I REALLY , REALLY HATE PUSH RODS, i guess that harley davidson havent > > even discovered ohc yet... does anybody wanna tell em? i would love > to > > be sitting at the lites, on a late model jap bike, right next to a harley, > > then when the lites turn green.............. > > > > > > mark k > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:43 PM > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > Indy cars use pushrods > > > I guess they have to be pretty clever to work around that little problem > > > > > > > > From: "Daniel Kroehn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > Date: 15/11/2001 11:57:19 > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > Did you guys know that to reduce the moment of inertia on indy cars, > the > > > > flywheel/clutch arrangement is only about 5 inches in > > > > diameter.......................... > > > > damn amazing if you ask me! > > > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:36 AM > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Errol, > > > > > > > > > > I am guessing that the only reason to chase smoother engine running > is > > to > > > > remove the high frequency vibrations. > > > > > This means that you can rev higher for longer before connecting > > > > rod/piston/big-end bolt fatigue failures occur. > > > > > And if your engine can rev 500 rpm more than the opposition, you can > > get > > > > 500 revs worth of power by changing cam profiles etc... > > > > > If you are rev limited, then I suppose the only advantage is > increased > > > > reliability > > > > > > > > > > If you want to reduce rotational inertia you are better off > lightening > > the > > > > flywheel. > > > > > > > > > > I wish that my engine was as well built as a race engine, an > 8,000rpm > > > > pick-a-part L20 mmm... > > > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "E Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > Date: 14/11/2001 21:12:38 > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep Daniel, > > > > > > The Mitsi Astrons use counterbalance shafts. They have > > counterweights > > > > that > > > > > > must be timed to knock out some of those secondary forces???? > > > > > > If people are looking to stretch the grey matter in engine > designs, > > how > > > > > > about looking at the balance factors in engines. The balance > factor > > is > > > > the > > > > > > ratio of the conrod and piston assembly masses compared to the > crank > > > > > > counterweight mass/es. A balance factor of unity would in theory > > have > > > > > > minimal secondary force losses except at 90 degrees and 270 > degrees > > > > crank > > > > > > rotation rotation from TDC where the rod design causes some > losses. > > I > > > > have > > > > > > seen race Datto engines running balance factors as low as 30 > percent > > to > > > > > > reduce rotational inertia. This is a testament to the strength of > > their > > > > > > basic design. People overseas are doing some interesting things > with > > > > balance > > > > > > as most of the secondary forces are energy that is lost and > wasted. > > > > > > Any though or LOL's???? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Feral Errol > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > http://www.datrats.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel > > Kroehn > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 11:43 AM > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry trev, your right on that one! Static balancing is only used > > when > > > > the > > > > > > distribution of mass is known or can be measured without > dynamically > > > > mving > > > > > > the system. Its hard to put what is going on in a cylinder into > > words!! > > > > > > Little animations make things so much clearer! From what they > tried > > to > > > > > > teach us, a six usually has its journals spaced 120 degrees apart > to > > > > make it > > > > > > balance the primary forces of piston motion. The secondary force > as > > I > > > > said > > > > > > acts perpendicular to the direction of travel of the piston which > > can > > > > cause > > > > > > a "rocking" moment inside the engine. That's why sometimes masses > > which > > > > > > counter-rotate to the direction of crankshaft movement are used, > to > > > > correct > > > > > > this. Someone told me that the 2.6l astron engines have such an > > > > > > arrangement, can anyone confirm this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > > > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > > > > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:00 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My understanding of engine balancing is that only the rods and > > pistons > > > > are > > > > > > > statically balanced. The reciprocating parts are dynamically > > balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I found this link about L6 harmonics. > > > > > > > http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/harmonics.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know from people in my club that a good quality aftermarket > > crank > > > > front > > > > > > > pulley is a must for L6 race engines as the harmonics are great > > enough > > > > to > > > > > > > destroy the std front pulley or even snap crankshafts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last time I saw a pic of an L6 crank it was not mearly an > > extended > > > > L4 > > > > > > > crank with journals 180deg apart. Although I can't remeber the > > exact > > > > > > > configuration at the moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Trev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Daniel Kroehn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 9:51 > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It hard to get your mind around this shit, I just had a three > hour > > > > > > exam on > > > > > > > balancing and the like at uni yesterday. Its not static > balancing > > > > like > > > > > > when > > > > > > > you get the pistons, rods, crank, flywheel combo balanced, its > all > > > > about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > dynamic balancing where froces from the piston firing create > > forces > > > > and > > > > > > > moments which lead to imbalances inside the engine. Can someone > > tell > > > > me > > > > > > why > > > > > > > the secondary forces in a 6 completly cancel out as I'm not 100% > > clear > > > > on > > > > > > > why, I guess I'm picturing it as a four only with two more > > > > cylinders(hence > > > > > > > primary force cancelation). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > > > > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > > > > > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:20 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if your engine is built by Swiss watchmakers with no > > expense > > > > > > spared, > > > > > > > you cannot escape the unbalance caused by the engine > > configuration. > > > > > > > > But of course if the engine has been manufactured to sloppy > > > > tolerances > > > > > > > then it will be much worse than an engine built by our Swiss > > mates. > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "mark krawczuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > Date: 13/11/2001 21:39:44 > > > > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi, so what if their un balanced, anybody doing up a high > > > > > > performance > > > > > > > > > engine always gets the engine full > > > > ballanced........................ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mark k > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:30 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful... :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 13:15 > > > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The theory behind engine configuration is about balance > and > > > > > > packaging > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A 'V' engine (except v12) is fundamentally unbalanced. i.e > > they > > > > > > shake > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > vibrate because all the rotating and reciprocating > > components > > > > are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > fully > > > > > > > > > > balanced. > > > > > > > > > > V engines are compact, this is their advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An in-line four cylinder also unbalanced - but you can add > > two > > > > > > balance > > > > > > > > > > shafts to compensate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > straight 6 engines are fully balanced for most harmonics, > > that > > > > is > > > > > > why > > > > > > > BMW > > > > > > > > > > still use them when a v-6 would be lighter, cheaper, and > > more > > > > > > compact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Flat 'boxer' engines are fundamentally balanced and use a > > very > > > > > > short, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > therefore stiff, crankshaft. > > > > > > > > > > This is why Subaru and alfa-sud engines are so smooth and > > > > responsive > > > > > > > > > > compared with inline fours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Straight 8's are fully balanced but the crankshaft is long > > and > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > torsionally stiff and you'd need a long engine bay to fit > it > > all > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS just because some engines are smoother than others it > > doesn't > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > they can't go just hard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so can you explain why? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drag cars are v-8's because noone makes straight > 8's... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If your theory is true why aren't all motors Vees? > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the boxers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: James Marmont > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 12:08 > > > > > > > > > > > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no way!!!!!! Thats why all top fuel drags are "V"s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 12:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's just for space reasons I thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: James Marmont > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 11:20 > > > > > > > > > > > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the "v" says it all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 11:32 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know whether it is the number of cylinders > > or > > > > the > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > > > of an > > > > > > > > > > > > engine that determines it's torque? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is would a 2l V6 have more torque that a 2l 4 > cyl?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Iggy (dreaming again) Sandejas > > > > > > > > > > > > Sydney NSW > > > > > > > > > > > > Datsun 1600 FJ20t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail > > http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------
