there seems to be a general phobia out there of storing sessions in the DB
-- i know this coz i had it once, but overcame it by realizing (mentally and
through this forum) that we really should use memcached for what it's good
at and NOT as a persistent data store.

unless you have abysmally low/poor server specs, i think you shouldn't worry
about perfomance issues with regard to DB-based session handling -- enhanced
with memcached!

On 14 March 2010 13:27, Martin Grotzke <[email protected]>wrote:

> Yes, what you described is similar to the situation with the sessions not
> updated in memcached as they were only read by the application issue.
>
> Still, I think if there's enough memory for all active sessions only
> sessions should be dropped that are in fact expired. For this a simplified
> slab configuration (one slab for all sessions) would be helpful AFAICS.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Peter J. Holzer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-03-12 17:07:25 -0800, dormando wrote:
>> > Now, it should be obvious that if a user session has reached a point
>> where
>> > it would be evicted early, it is because you did not have enough memory
>> to
>> > store *all active sessions anyway*. The odds of it evicting someone who
>> > has visited your site *after* me are highly unlikely. The longer I stay
>> > off the site, the higher the odds of it being evicted early due to lack
>> of
>> > memory.
>> >
>> > This does mean, by way of painfully describing how an LRU works, that
>> the
>> > odds of you finding sessions in memcached which have not been expired,
>> but
>> > are being evicted from the LRU earlier than expired sessions, is very
>> > unlikely.
>> [...]
>> > The caveat is that memcached has one LRU per slab class.
>> >
>> > So, lets say your traffic ends up looking like:
>> >
>> > - For the first 10,000 sessions, they are all 200 kilobytes. This ends
>> up
>> > having memcached allocate all of its slab memory toward something that
>> > will fit 200k items.
>> > - You get linked from the frontpage of digg.com and suddenly you have a
>> > bunch of n00bass users hitting your site. They have smaller sessions
>> since
>> > they are newbies. 10k items.
>> > - Memcached has only reserved 1 megabyte toward 10k items. So now all of
>> > your newbies share a 1 megabyte store for sessions, instead of 200
>> > megabytes.
>>
>> There's another caveat (I think Martin may have been referring to this
>> scenario, but he wasn't very clear):
>>
>>
>> Suppose you have two kinds of entries in your memcached, with different
>> expire times. For example, in addition to your sessions with 3600s, you
>> have some alert box with an expiry time of 60s. By chance,
>> both items are approximately the same size and occupy the same slab
>> class(es).
>>
>> You have enough memory to keep all sessions for 3600 seconds and enough
>> memory to keep all alert boxes for 60 seconds. But you don't have enough
>> memory to keep all alert boxes for 3600 seconds (why should you, they
>> expire
>> after 60 seconds).
>>
>> Now, when you walk the LRU chain, the search for expired items will only
>> return expired alert boxes which are about as old as your oldest session.
>> As soon as there are 50 (not yet expired) sessions older than the oldest
>> (expired) alert box, you will evict a session although you still have a
>> lot of expired alert boxes which you could reuse.
>>
>> The only workaround for this problem I can see is to use different
>> memcached servers for items of (wildly) different expiration times.
>>
>> > However the slab out of balance thing is a real fault of ours. It's a
>> > project on my plate to have automated slab rebalancing done in some
>> usable
>> > fashion within the next several weeks. This means that if a slab is out
>> of
>> > memory and under pressure, memcached will decide if it can pull memory
>> > from another slab class to satisfy that need. As the size of your items
>> > change over time, it will thus try to compensate.
>>
>> That's good to hear.
>>
>>        hp
>>
>> --
>>   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Openmoko has already embedded
>> |_|_) | Sysadmin WSR       | voting system.
>> | |   | [email protected]         | Named "If you want it -- write it"
>> __/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |  -- Ilja O. on [email protected]
>>
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>
>
> --
> Martin Grotzke
> http://www.javakaffee.de/blog/
>

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