Total brain fart on my part. Apparently I had memcached 1.4.13 on my path
(who knows how...) Using the actual one that I've built works. Sorry for
the confusion... can't believe I didn't realize that before. I'm testing
against the compiled one now to see how it behaves.
On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 1:15:06 AM UTC-7, Dormando wrote:
>
> You sure that's 1.4.24? None of those fail for me :(
>
> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015, Scott Mansfield wrote:
>
> > The command line I've used that will start is:
> >
> > memcached -m 64 -o slab_reassign,slab_automove
> >
> >
> > the ones that fail are:
> >
> >
> > memcached -m 64 -o
> slab_reassign,slab_automove,lru_crawler,lru_maintainer
> >
> > memcached -o lru_crawler
> >
> >
> > I'm sure I've missed something during compile, though I just used
> ./configure and make.
> >
> >
> > On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 12:22:33 AM UTC-7, Scott Mansfield wrote:
> > I've attached a pretty simple program to connect, fill a slab with
> data, and then fill another slab slowly with data of a different size. I've
> been trying to get memcached to run with the lru_crawler and lru_maintainer
> flags, but I get '
> >
> > Illegal suboption "(null)"' every time I try to start with either
> in any configuration.
> >
> >
> > I haven't seen it start to move slabs automatically with a freshly
> installed 1.2.24.
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 4:55:17 PM UTC-7, Scott Mansfield
> wrote:
> > I realize I've not given you the tests to reproduce the
> behavior. I should be able to soon. Sorry about the delay here.
> > In the mean time, I wanted to bring up a possible secondary use of the
> same logic to move items on slab rebalancing. I think the system might
> benefit from using the same logic to crawl the pages in a slab and compact
> the data in the background. In the case where we have memory that is
> assigned to the slab but not being used because of replaced
> > or TTL'd out data, returning the memory to a pool of free memory will
> allow a slab to grow with that memory first instead of waiting for an event
> where memory is needed at that instant.
> >
> > It's a change in approach, from reactive to proactive. What do you
> think?
> >
> > On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 5:54:11 PM UTC-7, Dormando wrote:
> > > First, more detail for you:
> > >
> > > We are running 1.4.24 in production and haven't noticed any bugs
> as of yet. The new LRUs seem to be working well, though we nearly always
> run memcached scaled to hold all data without evictions. Those with
> evictions are behaving well. Those without evictions haven't seen crashing
> or any other noticeable bad behavior.
> >
> > Neat.
> >
> > >
> > > OK, I think I see an area where I was speculating on
> functionality. If you have a key in slab 21 and then the same key is
> written again at a larger size in slab 23 I assumed that the space in 21
> was not freed on the second write. With that assumption, the LRU crawler
> would not free up that space. Also just by observation in the
> > macro, the space is not freed
> > > fast enough to be effective, in our use case, to accept the
> writes that are happening. Think in the hundreds of millions of
> "overwrites" in a 6 - 10 hour period across a cluster.
> >
> > Internally, "items" (a key/value pair) are generally immutable.
> The only
> > time when it's not is for INCR/DECR, and it still becomes
> immutable if two
> > INCR/DECR's collide.
> >
> > What this means, is that the new item is staged in a piece of free
> memory
> > while the "upload" stage of the SET happens. When memcached has
> all of the
> > data in memory to replace the item, it does an internal swap under
> a lock.
> > The old item is removed from the hash table and LRU, and the new
> item gets
> > put in its place (at the head of the LRU).
> >
> > Since items are refcounted, this means that if other users are
> downloading
> > an item which just got replaced, their memory doesn't get
> corrupted by the
> > item changing out from underneath them. They can continue to read
> the old
> > item until they're done. When the refcount reaches zero the old
> memory is
> > reclaimed.
> >
> > Most of the time, the item replacement happens then the old memory
> is
> > immediately removed.
> >
> > However, this does mean that you need *one* piece of free memory
> to
> > replace the old one. Then the old memory gets freed after that
> set.
> >
> > So if you take a memcached instance with 0 free chunks, and do a
> rolling
> > replacement of all items (within the same slab class as before),
> the first
> > one would cause an eviction from the tail of the LRU to get a free
> chunk.
> > Every SET after that would use the chunk freed from the
> replacement of the
> > previous memory.
> >
> > > After that last sentence I realized I also may not have
> explained well enough the access pattern. The keys are all overwritten
> every day, but it takes some time to write them all (obviously). We see a
> huge increase in the bytes metric as if the new data for the old keys was
> being written for the first time. Since the "old" slab for
> > the same key doesn't
> > > proactively release memory, it starts to fill up the cache and
> then start evicting data in the new slab. Once that happens, we see
> evictions in the old slab because of the algorithm you mentioned (random
> picking / freeing of memory). Typically we don't see any use for
> "upgrading" an item as the new data would be entirely new and
> > should wholesale replace the
> > > old data for that key. More specifically, the operation is
> always set, with different data each day.
> >
> > Right. Most of your problems will come from two areas. One being
> that
> > writing data aggressively into the new slab class (unless you set
> the
> > rebalancer to always-replace mode), the mover will make memory
> available
> > more slowly than you can insert. So you'll cause extra evictions
> in the
> > new slab class.
> >
> > The secondary problem is from the random evictions in the previous
> slab
> > class as stuff is chucked on the floor to make memory moveable.
> >
> > > As for testing, we'll be able to put it under real production
> workload. I don't know what kind of data you mean you need for testing. The
> data stored in the caches are highly confidential. I can give you all kinds
> of metrics, since we collect most of the ones that are in the stats and
> some from the stats slabs output. If you have
> > some specific ones that
> > > need collecting, I'll double check and make sure we can get
> those. Alternatively, it might be most beneficial to see the metrics in
> person :)
> >
> > I just need stats snapshots here and there, and actually putting
> the thing
> > under load. When I did the LRU work I had to beg for several
> months
> > before anyone tested it with a production load. This slows things
> down and
> > demotivates me from working on the project.
> >
> > Unfortunately my dayjob keeps me pretty busy so ~internet~ would
> probably
> > be best.
> >
> > > I can create a driver program to reproduce the behavior on a
> smaller scale. It would write e.g. 10k keys of 10k size, then rewrite the
> same keys with different size data. I'll work on that and post it to this
> thread when I can reproduce the behavior locally.
> >
> > Ok. There're slab rebalance unit tests in the t/ directory which
> do things
> > like this, and I've used mc-crusher to slam the rebalancer. It's
> pretty
> > easy to run one config to load up 10k objects, then flip to the
> other
> > using the same key namespace.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 12:05:54 PM UTC-7, Dormando wrote:
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Jul 2015, Scott Mansfield wrote:
> > >
> > > > We've seen issues recently where we run a cluster that
> typically has the majority of items overwritten in the same slab every day
> and a sudden change in data size evicts a ton of data, affecting downstream
> systems. To be clear that is our problem, but I think there's a tweak in
> memcached that might be useful and another
> > possible feature that
> > > would be even
> > > > better.
> > > > The data that is written to this cache is overwritten
> every day, though the TTL is 7 days. One slab takes up the majority of the
> space in the cache. The application wrote e.g. 10KB (slab 21) every day for
> each key consistently. One day, a change occurred where it started writing
> 15KB (slab 23), causing a migration of data
> > from one slab to
> > > another. We had -o
> > > > slab_reassign,slab_automove=1 set on the server, causing
> large numbers of evictions on the initial slab. Let's say the cache could
> hold the data at 15KB per key, but the old data was not technically TTL'd
> out in it's old slab. This means that memory was not being freed by the lru
> crawler thread (I think) because its expiry
> > had not come
> > > around.
> > > >
> > > > lines 1199 and 1200 in items.c:
> > > > if ((search->exptime != 0 && search->exptime <
> current_time) || is_flushed(search)) {
> > > >
> > > > If there was a check to see if this data was "orphaned,"
> i.e. that the key, if accessed, would map to a different slab than the
> current one, then these orphans could be reclaimed as free memory. I am
> working on a patch to do this, though I have reservations about performing
> a hash on the key on the lru crawler thread (if
> > the hash is not
> > > already available).
> > > > I have very little experience in the memcached codebase
> so I don't know the most efficient way to do this. Any help would be
> appreciated.
> > >
> > > There seems to be a misconception about how the slab
> classes work. A key,
> > > if already existing in a slab, will always map to the slab
> class it
> > > currently fits into. The slab classes always exist, but
> the amount of
> > > memory reserved for each of them will shift with the
> slab_reassign. ie: 10
> > > pages in slab class 21, then memory pressure on 23 causes
> it to move over.
> > >
> > > So if you examine a key that still exists in slab class
> 21, it has no
> > > reason to move up or down the slab classes.
> > >
> > > > Alternatively, and possibly more beneficial is
> compaction of data in a slab using the same set of criteria as lru
> crawling. Understandably, compaction is a very difficult problem to solve
> since moving the data would be a pain in the ass. I saw a couple of
> discussions about this in the mailing list, though I didn't see any
> > firm thoughts about
> > > it. I think it
> > > > can probably be done in O(1) like the lru crawler by
> limiting the number of items it touches each time. Writing and reading are
> doable in O(1) so moving should be as well. Has anyone given more thought
> on compaction?
> > >
> > > I'd be interested in hacking this up for you folks if you
> can provide me
> > > testing and some data to work with. With all of the LRU
> work I did in
> > > 1.4.24, the next things I wanted to do is a big
> improvement on the slab
> > > reassignment code.
> > >
> > > Currently it picks essentially a random slab page, empties
> it, and moves
> > > the slab page into the class under pressure.
> > >
> > > One thing we can do is first examine for free memory in
> the existing slab,
> > > IE:
> > >
> > > - Take a page from slab 21
> > > - Scan the page for valid items which need to be moved
> > > - Pull free memory from slab 21, migrate the item
> (moderately complicated)
> > > - When the page is empty, move it (or give up if you run
> out of free
> > > chunks).
> > >
> > > The next step is to pull from the LRU on slab 21:
> > >
> > > - Take page from slab 21
> > > - Scan page for valid items
> > > - Pull free memory from slab 21, migrate the item
> > > - If no memory free, evict tail of slab 21. use that
> chunk.
> > > - When the page is empty, move it.
> > >
> > > Then, when you hit this condition your least-recently-used
> data gets
> > > culled as new data migrates your page class. This should
> match a natural
> > > occurrance if you would already be evicting valid (but
> old) items to make
> > > room for new items.
> > >
> > > A bonus to using the free memory trick, is that I can use
> the amount of
> > > free space in a slab class as a heuristic to more quickly
> move slab pages
> > > around.
> > >
> > > If it's still necessary from there, we can explore
> "upgrading" items to a
> > > new slab class, but that is much much more complicated
> since the item has
> > > to shift LRU's. Do you put it at the head, the tail, the
> middle, etc? It
> > > might be impossible to make a good generic decision there.
> > >
> > > What version are you currently on? If 1.4.24, have you
> seen any
> > > instability? I'm currently torn between fighting a few
> bugs and start on
> > > improving the slab rebalancer.
> > >
> > > -Dormando
> > >
> > >
> > > On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 12:05:54 PM UTC-7, Dormando wrote:
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Jul 2015, Scott Mansfield wrote:
> > >
> > > > We've seen issues recently where we run a cluster that
> typically has the majority of items overwritten in the same slab every day
> and a sudden change in data size evicts a ton of data, affecting downstream
> systems. To be clear that is our problem, but I think there's a tweak in
> memcached that might be useful and another
> > possible feature that
> > > would be even
> > > > better.
> > > > The data that is written to this cache is overwritten
> every day, though the TTL is 7 days. One slab takes up the majority of the
> space in the cache. The application wrote e.g. 10KB (slab 21) every day for
> each key consistently. One day, a change occurred where it started writing
> 15KB (slab 23), causing a migration of data
> > from one slab to
> > > another. We had -o
> > > > slab_reassign,slab_automove=1 set on the server, causing
> large numbers of evictions on the initial slab. Let's say the cache could
> hold the data at 15KB per key, but the old data was not technically TTL'd
> out in it's old slab. This means that memory was not being freed by the lru
> crawler thread (I think) because its expiry
> > had not come
> > > around.
> > > >
> > > > lines 1199 and 1200 in items.c:
> > > > if ((search->exptime != 0 && search->exptime <
> current_time) || is_flushed(search)) {
> > > >
> > > > If there was a check to see if this data was "orphaned,"
> i.e. that the key, if accessed, would map to a different slab than the
> current one, then these orphans could be reclaimed as free memory. I am
> working on a patch to do this, though I have reservations about performing
> a hash on the key on the lru crawler thread (if
> > the hash is not
> > > already available).
> > > > I have very little experience in the memcached codebase
> so I don't know the most efficient way to do this. Any help would be
> appreciated.
> > >
> > > There seems to be a misconception about how the slab
> classes work. A key,
> > > if already existing in a slab, will always map to the slab
> class it
> > > currently fits into. The slab classes always exist, but
> the amount of
> > > memory reserved for each of them will shift with the
> slab_reassign. ie: 10
> > > pages in slab class 21, then memory pressure on 23 causes
> it to move over.
> > >
> > > So if you examine a key that still exists in slab class
> 21, it has no
> > > reason to move up or down the slab classes.
> > >
> > > > Alternatively, and possibly more beneficial is
> compaction of data in a slab using the same set of criteria as lru
> crawling. Understandably, compaction is a very difficult problem to solve
> since moving the data would be a pain in the ass. I saw a couple of
> discussions about this in the mailing list, though I didn't see any
> > firm thoughts about
> > > it. I think it
> > > > can probably be done in O(1) like the lru crawler by
> limiting the number of items it touches each time. Writing and reading are
> doable in O(1) so moving should be as well. Has anyone given more thought
> on compaction?
> > >
> > > I'd be interested in hacking this up for you folks if you
> can provide me
> > > testing and some data to work with. With all of the LRU
> work I did in
> > > 1.4.24, the next things I wanted to do is a big
> improvement on the slab
> > > reassignment code.
> > >
> > > Currently it picks essentially a random slab page, empties
> it, and moves
> > > the slab page into the class under pressure.
> > >
> > > One thing we can do is first examine for free memory in
> the existing slab,
> > > IE:
> > >
> > > - Take a page from slab 21
> > > - Scan the page for valid items which need to be moved
> > > - Pull free memory from slab 21, migrate the item
> (moderately complicated)
> > > - When the page is empty, move it (or give up if you run
> out of free
> > > chunks).
> > >
> > > The next step is to pull from the LRU on slab 21:
> > >
> > > - Take page from slab 21
> > > - Scan page for valid items
> > > - Pull free memory from slab 21, migrate the item
> > > - If no memory free, evict tail of slab 21. use that
> chunk.
> > > - When the page is empty, move it.
> > >
> > > Then, when you hit this condition your least-recently-used
> data gets
> > > culled as new data migrates your page class. This should
> match a natural
> > > occurrance if you would already be evicting valid (but
> old) items to make
> > > room for new items.
> > >
> > > A bonus to using the free memory trick, is that I can use
> the amount of
> > > free space in a slab class as a heuristic to more quickly
> move slab pages
> > > around.
> > >
> > > If it's still necessary from there, we can explore
> "upgrading" items to a
> > > new slab class, but that is much much more complicated
> since the item has
> > > to shift LRU's. Do you put it at the head, the tail, the
> middle, etc? It
> > > might be impossible to make a good generic decision there.
> > >
> > > What version are you currently on? If 1.4.24, have you
> seen any
> > > instability? I'm currently torn between fighting a few
> bugs and start on
> > > improving the slab rebalancer.
> > >
> > > -Dormando
> > >
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> > >
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