Tom, I do agree with your assessment and yes it is very frustrating to see it being done incorrectly.
Mike -----Original Message----- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:28 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doing SVO Wrong Mike, You and a few others are doing it right but based on the trashed diesels I've seen around here, I'd say that 90% or more are doing it wrong. It's frustrating to me because I want to find an older Mercedes diesel and the few I can find around here at a reasonable price have been converted & the engines are in serious trouble. I've found 6 out of 6 in the last year this way. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/ 256-656-1924 -----Original Message----- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Michael E. Esh Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 8:17 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doing SVO Wrong Tom and others with interest: The only thing I would add to your list is the added danger of processing biodiesel, which was the reason for the beginning of this thread. I process my WVO oil in the garage and do not have a safe place to process biodiesel. In filtering my oil with a centrifuge the highest temperature I get to is about 160 degrees. I spent $1800.00 on a frybrid kit that uses a separate tank for WVO. The kit uses 3 different engine coolant heat exchangers to heat the oil. The system switches automatically when it reaches 160 degrees Fahrenheit. Initially it takes about 7 to 10 mile to achieve this, less after driving for a while, so using it for short trips saves me very little. I can switch back to diesel any time with a flip of a switch. I have spent about $500 on a centrifuge filter system. With this system it takes about 4 hours to filter 35 gallons. I do not claim it to be an exact science. I do it because it is fun and hopefully I will reap rewards. I bought the car for $600 and have put 25,000 mile on it using WVO. Performance has not changed over this time. I am coming close to a break even point at this time and will continue to run the car as long as I can. If engine failure does occur I will replace it with the spare I have set aside. Mike -----Original Message----- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 8:18 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doing SVO Wrong Steve & Peter, I believe you just made the argument against burning WVO that I was trying to figure out how to type. The issues are: You need a relatively complex, relatively expensive system to properly run WVO in your Mercedes including 2 tanks (original diesel & added WVO). You need a multi-stage heating system. You need to remember to switch between fuels. The fuel source is unreliable & unrepeatable. And because of this, you always risk engine damage. The engine must be in excellent shape. If not then you risk engine damage. With everything the two of you pointed out, I wonder why anyone would risk a WVO system in their Mercedes when you are a few steps away from BIO-diesel. The advantages of BIO-diesel are: Much more consistent quality. The WVO quality will vary from load to load and the conversion process is modified with each batch to cover this variation. The end result is a much more consistent product. You still burn a waste oil source. No modifications needed to the fuel system. No special heaters. No second fuel tank. No need to remember to switch back & forth between fuels. Minimal risk to the engine. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/ 256-656-1924 -----Original Message----- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Steve MacSween Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:52 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doing SVO Wrong on 5/10/09 10:59, Peter Frederick at psf...@earthlink.net wrote: > If you have poor combustion, I suspect that WVO WILL coke up the > rings pretty fast, and I suspect most of the cheapskates who want to > run "free" fuel aren't going to put the $ into getting the engine > into tip top shape first. That is one big problem. The other difficulty is that the existing **mainstream** kit manufacturers (e.g., Frybrid, Greasecar, NOT the $500 fly-by-nighters like Lovecraft and certain eBay vendors, who are just Gong Show peformers) tend to deliver basic packages that are lowest-common-denominator at best. The kit suppliers just cannot arrive at an acceptable market price point by including everything necessary to ensure optimimum performance and best insurance against premature wear for a wide range of vehicle conditions and operating conditions (use patterns, climatic conditions, driving habits). As well, they vary in terms of how well they screen their potential mail-order customers in terms of the destination vehicle's age, maintenance history, compression specs, etc. (They are, however, scrupulous in terms of how they assess the vehicles they convert in-house.) In my opinion, there is not one kit on the market that does not require additional gear to safely run SVO/WVO over the long term. By my standards, not one kit provides sufficient heat at the injectors, and many are way below spec even before the injection pump. And there is almost nowhere in the U.S. or Canada, save perhaps afternoons in Death Valley, where you can safely run a single-tank system. Anyone who sells such solutions if pushing garbage for profit (excepting the German firm Elsbett, whose kits are very pricey and technically sophisticated, and not aimed at either DIYers or North American conditions). The other big problem is the question of the actual oil. A good deal of used restaurant oil is far too worn out to be usable. Worn out or poorly filtered WVO will ensure you kill a motor. Add to this poor compression, as Peter was talking about, and you will kill it even quicker. Proper WVO treatment is an entire area of debate in and of itself. Many people have complex arrangements, and do their own batch testing. I am not knowledgeable in this area. WVO use IS an experimental concept. It is not for everyone. If you think it's hokum, I am not likely to convince you otherwise. OTOH, bear in mind that the mainstream of car enthusiasts feel about the same about people who choose to drive 15-30 year old diesel Mercedes, as Luther feels about WVO. You have to at least keep an open mind. Cheers to all. Mac _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009 5:53 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009 5:53 PM _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009 5:53 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009 5:53 PM _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
