when we lived in WI, we received a sheet from the doctor when my wife became pregnant with our first child listing the rivers NOT to eat fish out of while pregnant because of paper mills - Fox River was a big one....maybe that isn't such a bad industry to outsource...
CM "Potter, Tom E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If you guys knew the NASTY stuff that is used in paper mills, you would not want one near you. It takes some REALLY strong chemicals to make that white paper, and the byproducts were pumped into holding ponds near the plants. All life in or around these ponds died of course. In the old days, they just pumped it into the river. Just the vapors from this stuff would eat (not just corrode) copper and brass fixtures (motor armatures, valves, etc.). I worked near one in Brunswick, GA, for a few months years ago. It was a learning experience. Tom Potter -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher McCann Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars... Interesting you bring up paper mills. For the most part, the USA is like a third world country when it comes to paper. We export pulp as a raw material and then re-import it as paper that is manufactured elsewhere - most of it, I think, in Finland. Indeed, there will be no paper mills here soon. CM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim very good / truthful wisdom below. When Caddy came out with a truck and called it the "escapade" that was another nail in coffin for the US auto market. In 30 years or less there will be no more US car manufactures or Paper Mills for that matter. As a country you need to make things and sell them to ourselves and the world. We did this (very well once) when we were economically great, hungry and humble about it. Now we pat ourselves on the back for being a consumer nation with a strong army and navy. A "service economy" We are just supporting the demographics (of 320 million people all looking for a home in the suburbs) now and not very well I might add as the two class system is rising to the top again, the haves and have nots. It always does when money and things get tight. I have heard good things about the Hyundai cars as well. Comes from a people/country being hungry to achieve goodness I guess. Regards Tom 1979 240D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Cathey" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars... >> The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. >> While >> this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler >> model, >> and we know how well that has worked in the long haul..... > > Great, GM design-by-committee! Bodes not well for high-quality > vehicles. Remember that Cadillac used to be a very high quality > car? But now it feeds from the same GM parts trough as the > cheapest car they make. > > If they already had a perfect door handle, there'd be no reason > to change it for a new model. I don't buy the argument. They > should have just said "it's cheaper". The fact that the sunroof, > say, won't be matched in size to the vehicle isn't supposed to > bother anybody. Certainly not the accountants now running the > show! > > And, of course, once your "perfect door handle" is no longer > so perfect for the application well too bad. Too many things > use it for you to be able to change that "one perfect handle". > I predict stagnation in the parts supply. Versus the well-known > dictum "grow or die". > > A co-worker just bought a new Kia, and was very favorably > impressed with the quality he got for his money... > > -- Jim > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Christopher McCann, happy customer of austerlitzshepherds.com "Ohne Zucht keine Leistung, ohne Leistung keine Zucht!" -2006 GSD, "Anke" (Yanke von der Burg Austerlitz) -2006 GSD, "Sammy" (Zane von der Burg Austerlitz) "Freude an der Arbeit: Hoechste Leistung - Mercedes-Benz." -1985 300SD, 220K miles, "Wulf" -1982 300Dt, 117K miles, "little blue klatter box" --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Christopher McCann, happy customer of austerlitzshepherds.com "Ohne Zucht keine Leistung, ohne Leistung keine Zucht!" -2006 GSD, "Anke" (Yanke von der Burg Austerlitz) -2006 GSD, "Sammy" (Zane von der Burg Austerlitz) "Freude an der Arbeit: Hoechste Leistung - Mercedes-Benz." -1985 300SD, 220K miles, "Wulf" -1982 300Dt, 117K miles, "little blue klatter box" --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. 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From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Mar 09 18:29:40 2007 Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.44]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) id 1HPjqW-0001Bg-EX for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:29:40 +0000 Received: from WFlaptop ([141.150.206.67]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:29:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 13:26:30 -0500 From: "Werner Fehlauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] New GM diesel X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com> List-Unsubscribe: <http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Archive: <http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com> List-Post: <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Subscribe: <http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:29:40 -0000 Craig - yes, more torque does indeed equate to more horsepower and vice versa, at the *same* rpm. And I read the previous post incorrectly, as the GM/Italian engine does indeed claim to have a slightly higher torque, 550 vs 540Nm. But the GM claim is from 2000 rpm and up, while M-B claims a "flat" curve from 1600 -2400, which probably is due to valve timing and flow patterns. The slightly longer stroke of the M-B engine would tend to yield higher torque, also. Having a broad band of torque at lower rpm would yield better "real world" driving capabilities. But you cannot simply equate max torque with max horsepower, even though at *steady state* (constant rpm) conditions, they are quite mathematically related. Its when the intake and exhaust passages, along with cylinder head design and valve timing are considered, then engines of similar peak horsepower ratings can have quite different torque outputs at different speeds. So the fact that the GM engine claims to have 11 more kW (about 15 more horsepower or ps in German parlance), that doesn't translate into an equal amount of torque change (increase). Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig McCluskey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] New GM diesel > On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:26:30 -0500 "Werner Fehlauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> Interesting similarities to the new M-B 320CDI engine - >> >> >> Displacement: 2947cc >> Power: 173 kW >> Bore: 83.0 >> Stroke: 92.0 >> torque: 540 Nm @1600-2400 rpm >> >> The M-B engine also uses multiple injections of fuel (4 the last time I >> heard) via piezo-electric injectors from a common rail at over 25,000 >> psi. It is interesting that the M-B engine apparently produces more >> torque over a wider range from essentially the same size engine, with >> slightly less horsepower. > > Huh? More torque at the same RPM means more horsepower ... perhaps it's > the way it's measured. > > > Craig
