Mersenne Digest Monday, June 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 569
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 5 Jun 99 23:19:34 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [RE: [Re: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]]]
> Here are my ideas on bugs:
> Bugs happen! They're a fact of life, omnipresent in all software.
Showstopper bugs should not slip through testing and into release software.
> Bugs should allways be caught in the testing, but so often they aren't.
Minor bugs yes, massive showstoppers no.
> In the meantime, a subgroup of testers have been created which should
> (hopefully) ensure that things like this cannot take place again.
Yes... a good idea. With a shiny new lock on that barn door, perhaps these
horses won't escape a second time and cost GIMPS hundreds of P90-years of
time... I still think it would have been a good idea to have had this lock
from the outset. But it's water under the bridge...
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Date: 5 Jun 99 23:48:35 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [RE: [Re: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]]]
My motivation is to help. This spectacular bug caused some of my help to have
been wasted.
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:46:29 -0400
From: Bryan Fullerton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [RE: [Re: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]]]
On Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 11:07:04PM -0600, Paul Derbyshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Erm? Regardless of when I found out, it remains a fact that to release
> non-beta software to the general public without a thorough testing *is* a rash
> act.
The software *was* tested - the testing missed this particular problem.
The testing has been improved since then - if you'd like to help it
improve even more you're been invited to contribute. George has
apologized, at length. Another prime has (most likely, double-check
pending) been found. The world continues to turn.
> >From my point of view, it isn't "long after the fact". It was yesterday.
Yay you. Can we let this topic drop now?
Bryan
- --
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 00:28:42 -0700
From: Will Edgington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18
> Here are my ideas on bugs: Bugs happen! They're a fact of life,
> omnipresent in all software.
Showstopper bugs should not slip through testing and into release
software.
Correct: _should_ not. That does not mean _will_ not. Mistakes
happen, at least as often as accidents. If testing could be perfected
in this manner, then programs themselves could be perfected.
> Bugs should allways be caught in the testing, but so often they
> aren't.
Minor bugs yes, massive showstoppers no.
How can a bug be known to be a show stopper until it has been found?
For that matter, I seem to recall that it cannot be proven that a
program will _halt_, let alone do something useful, let alone do
something useful without any bugs in any circumstances.
> In the meantime, a subgroup of testers have been created which
> should (hopefully) ensure that things like this cannot take place
> again.
Yes... a good idea. With a shiny new lock on that barn door,
perhaps these horses won't escape a second time and cost GIMPS
hundreds of P90-years of time... I still think it would have been a
good idea to have had this lock from the outset. But it's water
under the bridge...
Actually, a somewhat different "lock" has been on this barn door for
years (since not long after GIMPS started at the latest), in the form
of other programs, implemented independently and able to run on
different hardware. I'm not sure about this bug in particular, but
earlier bugs (in, at least, Prime95's factoring code and many of the
mers package programs) were only discovered by comparing their results
with results of those independent programs.
The new subgroup of testers is still a good idea, of course, but they
will only improve the quality of the releases, not make them bug-free.
Anyone expecting otherwise has quite a bit to learn about programming.
Will
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:13:27 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Mersenne: Evil Weasels
Oh, evil weasels are present everywhere.
<<Are you sure of that? What if the bug didn't happen to strike my run, or the
errors could be corrected?>>
Cannot be corrected. The error is present in the first iteration. And the bug
DID strike your run.
<<If what you say is true, then whoever designed version 17>>
GEORGE WOLTMAN. You should *at least* know the guy's name! He has provided
you with absolutely free software, constant updates, and even took care of
ALL exponent assigning not too long ago. Augh!
<<acted in a completely unconscionably rash manner by releasing it without
thoroughly
testing it for problems as serious as that.>>
It WAS thoroughly tested for problems. And for the FIRST TIME in so many
versions, a single little crappy bug (it encompassed only a few lines)
weaseled its way in.
<<And has therefore shot the whole GIMPS effort in the foot by setting it
back many weeks.>>
Oh my God! NOT A FEW WEEKS! NOOOOOO! Come on. Think about it. GIMPS'
computers are faster than when v17 was released. We have many more of them.
The v17 bug will heal over AND THEN SOME in a month (or whatever). It is NOT
that serious. You know, I got some 7.6mil exponents a week ago. That's the
highest ever. Woltman also released v18 very promptly as well. YOU try
programming such a teriffic, well-behaved, crash-resistant program, with no
pay, and even insults from weasels like you. Mr. Woltman deserves
commendation, not what you're giving him.
S.T.L.
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:53:49 +0200 (CES)
From: "Gustav Schaffter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]
To everyone reading (and answering) this subject:
The guy is trolling. We are all going into his troll. (This is proven by the fact that
he just *wont* stop.)
Trolling is a technique used on the News lists since long time. Sometimes with
disastrous result for the list. It's been quite rare on mailing
lists, but it's coming more and more. We need to start reacting in the same manner as
they have done on most news lists:
There is only one way of escaping a list troll. To ignore it. Unfortunately, it
requires *everyone* on the list to start ignoring the subject at the
same time, which is not always so easy. There is always someone who is still upset
about something and the stuff goes on and on and...
So, please everyone reading this subject; STOP.
Mind you, I do not tell you to ignore all posts from him. Just don't react to anything
that upsets you. If you want to react, then write a *private*
e-mail directly to him. *Not* on the list. If everyone can follow this, the list will
calm down again.
Best regards
Gustav
inux -- The *ultimate* NT Service Pack.
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 09:53:25 -0500
From: Stephen Whitis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]
At 03:53 PM 6/6/99 +0200, you wrote:
>To everyone reading (and answering) this subject:
>
>The guy is trolling. We are all going into his troll. (This is proven by the
>fact that he just *wont* stop.)
I agree, he's trolling. He claimed to be a programmer, but then over and
over he claimed that bugs should *always* be caught in testing, prior
to release. That proves he's lying, because no programmer can believe
that happens in the real world. Shoot, I wouldn't think any computer
user, much less programmer, would believe that. I'd been about to cuss
him out prior to realizing that he was a troll.
Maybe we'll get lucky and his ISP will screw him again... :^)
- ---
Stephen Whitis
Visit http://www.whitis.com for information
about Delphi, NT4.0 software, Juggling,
or darn near anything else I happen to be
interested in.
Don't spam me, and I won't report your spam.
Spam me, and all bets are off.
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:17:15 -0400
From: Jud McCranie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
I just noticed that the EFF is now offering $100,000 prize for the first
10,000,000 digit prime. I assume that this means that they consider the
1,000,000 digit prize essentially considered to have been claimed?
+----------------+
| Jud McCranie |
+----------------+
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:33:02 +0100 (BST)
From: Chris Jefferson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]
NO MORE. The end..
- ------------------------------------
Chris Jefferson, Girton College, Cambridge, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- ------------------------------------
I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2.
However, it won't fit into my signature file....
- ------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:46:35 -0400
From: "Rick Pali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]
From: Gustav Schaffter
> The guy is trolling. We are all going into his troll. (This
> is proven by the fact that he just *wont* stop.)
Amen to that. No one can possibly thing that *everything* works from their
point of view and everyone else's view is wrong or unimportant. I would
think that anyone with a modicum of tact or sense would now apologise to
George for what he said, but that would put an end to the troll, wouldn't
it?
You're offering good advice Gustav, I'm out of this discussion for good.
Rick.
- -----
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alienshore.com/
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 12:04:40 -0400
From: Peter Doherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]
I second that.
At 16:33 06/06/1999 +0100, you wrote:
>NO MORE. The end..
>
>------------------------------------
>Chris Jefferson, Girton College, Cambridge, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>------------------------------------
>I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2.
>However, it won't fit into my signature file....
>------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:08:10 -0600
From: "Aaron Blosser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
> I just noticed that the EFF is now offering $100,000 prize for the first
> 10,000,000 digit prime. I assume that this means that they consider the
> 1,000,000 digit prize essentially considered to have been claimed?
>
> +----------------+
> | Jud McCranie |
> +----------------+
The EFF had always had prizes for larger primes...I guess nobody really
considered any of the others besdies the first megadigit prime, since the
other awards probably won't happen for some time to come.
I think they ponied up in the neighborhood of $550,000 altogether, including
$250,000 for the first giga-digit prime.
I suppose that given the extra time it'll take to find those, effects of
inflation actually makes all the prize amounts equal :-)
As someone else said, in the time it takes to find a giga-digit prime, why
not throw a couple hundred bucks into a money market account or some other
interest bearing fund...in the time it'd take to find a prime that big,
you'd have already received that much in interest. :-)
Aaron
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:21:24 -0400
From: Jud McCranie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
- --=====================_233641312==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:08 AM 6/6/99 -0600, Aaron Blosser wrote:
>As someone else said, in the time it takes to find a giga-digit prime, why
>not throw a couple hundred bucks into a money market account or some other
>interest bearing fund...in the time it'd take to find a prime that big,
>you'd have already received that much in interest. :-)
Yes. I hope I live long enough to see a billion-digit prime. There's a good
chance of it.
+----------------------------------+
| Jud McCranie |
| |
| I have macular stars in my eyes. |
+----------------------------------+
- --=====================_233641312==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
<font size=3>At 10:08 AM 6/6/99 -0600, Aaron Blosser wrote:<br>
<br>
>As someone else said, in the time it takes to find a giga-digit
prime, why<br>
>not throw a couple hundred bucks into a money market account or some
other<br>
>interest bearing fund...in the time it'd take to find a prime that
big,<br>
>you'd have already received that much in interest. :-)<br>
<br>
Yes. I hope I live long enough to see a billion-digit prime.
There's a good chance of it.<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<div>+----------------------------------+</div>
<div>| Jud
McCranie
|</div>
<div>|
|</div>
<div>| I have macular stars in my eyes. |</div>
<div>+----------------------------------+</div>
<br>
</html>
- --=====================_233641312==_.ALT--
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:30:08 -0600
From: "Aaron Blosser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
>>As someone else said, in the time it takes to find a giga-digit prime, why
>>not throw a couple hundred bucks into a money market account or some other
>>interest bearing fund...in the time it'd take to find a prime that big,
>>you'd have already received that much in interest. :-)
>Yes. I hope I live long enough to see a billion-digit prime. There's a
good chance of it.
I hope so too (heck, I hope I just live a long life...seeing a giga-digit
prime would be a bonus).
I suppose it depends on whether Moore's Law can continue to hold true. I'm
not so sure that we can keep doubling speeds of processors every 18 months
as predicted...it's already taken them quite a while to go from 300MHz
machines to 550MHz machines for Wintel processors...and that's just barely
in 18 months (close enough to doubling I s'pose). It's getting harder to
eke out extra MHz without really dropping the die size alot more than what
they're dealing with. But I suppose it won't be long before .15/.12/.10
micron die sizes are ready for mass producing.
Aaron
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:58:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Prime95 on linux, a tech question
First of all put the following at the bottom of your /etc/rc.d/rc.local
file:
/Your/path/to/mprime/mprime &
To start it from the command line do this:
nohup /Your/path/to/mprime/mprime &
- -Chuck
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm trying to run mprime on a (test)webserver (linux/apache) with no
> console access.
> Now I can start mprime remotely through telnet - which works fine.
> But as soon as I quit the particular telnet-session - mprime quits too.
> Anybody can give me a hint how do keep mprime running?
>
> thanks in advance
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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>
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Date: 6 Jun 99 12:06:37 MDT
From: Paul Derbyshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [[Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]]
Stephen Whitis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> He claimed to be a programmer, but then over and over he claimed that
> bugs should *always* be caught in testing, prior to release. That
> proves he's lying, because no programmer can believe that happens in
> the real world.
A complete set of test-cases should catch all major (e.g. showstopper) bugs.
If a bug of such magnitude makes it into a release product testing cannot have
been thorough. And someone admitted that testing for v.17 was in fact not
thorough, as the routines that kick in above 2^22 never were tested since the
test suite didn't include an exponent above 2^22.
> Maybe we'll get lucky and his ISP will screw him again... :^)
You should grow like a turnip, with your head in the ground and your legs in
the air.
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Prime95 on linux, a tech question
I wouldn't recommend the "> /dev/null" command. If you start it remotely,
the stdout and stderr usually (but not always) go to e-mail. This way you
can still see the output and not lose any critical messages...
- -Chuck
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Philip Heede wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:03:25 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Now I can start mprime remotely through telnet - which works fine.
> >But as soon as I quit the particular telnet-session - mprime quits
> >too.
> >Anybody can give me a hint how do keep mprime running?
>
> Sure..
> I run mprime remotely on a server by using a simple
> "./mprime > /dev/null &" command. The "> /dev/null" suppresses output and
> the "&" makes MPrime run in the background. If you want output in a file
> simply replace "/dev/null" with the filename.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Philip Heede
>
>
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:31:42 -0700
From: Spike Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: SETI again
I suspected that existence of SETI@Home would somehow benefit
GIMPS in the long run, and now I see how it might happen: SETI@Home
is a dog compared to GIMPS. It doesnt get outta your way when
you want your computer's undivided attention, and now it appears
they have been handing out the same assignment over and over
instead of just sending out a message like:
Sorry, we dont have any work for you right now. Come back in a month.
So, some of the reported half million SETIers will become disillusioned,
because we are the type that do not like to waste computer cycles,
and look around for other projects to work on, perhaps one with
a reputation for honesty, integrity and reliability, such as GIMPS.
If nothing else, SETI@Home introduced the masses to the concept
of distributed computing.
Thanks Scott and George, may your descendants fill the earth. {8^D
spike
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 14:33:21 -0500
From: Amy and Shane Sanford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
>I hope so too (heck, I hope I just live a long life...seeing a giga-digit
>prime would be a bonus).
>
>I suppose it depends on whether Moore's Law can continue to hold true. I'm
>not so sure that we can keep doubling speeds of processors every 18 months
>as predicted...it's already taken them quite a while to go from 300MHz
>machines to 550MHz machines for Wintel processors...and that's just barely
>in 18 months (close enough to doubling I s'pose). It's getting harder to
>eke out extra MHz without really dropping the die size alot more than what
>they're dealing with. But I suppose it won't be long before .15/.12/.10
>micron die sizes are ready for mass producing.
I have heard some insider news that Intel *could* hit the 1 GigaHertz mark
by years end if they had a reason too (if AMD jumped out with a unexpected
surprise). Once we start hitting the sweet spot in die size I am under the
impression that they will start exploring the multiple processor route...
Multiple processor systems are already becoming more mainstream. So I
think we will be able to continue with MASSIVE performance increases over
our lifetimes. This is assuming we stick with the Von Neumann
architecture, new and EXCITING technologies (such as neural computing &
massively parallel systems) are just over the horizon. These technologies
and others offer us unimaginable new possibilities with their own unique
strengths & weaknesses -- maybe when these new tools are out there we will
find a new Algo. that better fits their strengths.
My understanding of the purpose of rewards like the EFF is posting is to
foster new and innovative ways to solve problems that almost seem
impossible at the time. If asked 10 years ago who here would have thought
we would be testing numbers as big as we have... George & Scott's vision
of this very project is such an example of break through technology, which
allows us to advance in the scientific frontier at break neck speeds.
Whoohoo isn't this a exciting time to live!!!
Shane
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:38:57 -0400
From: Jud McCranie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
- --=====================_242090795==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:30 AM 6/6/99 -0600, Aaron Blosser wrote:
>I suppose it depends on whether Moore's Law can continue to hold true. I'm
>not so sure that we can keep doubling speeds of processors every 18 months
>as predicted...
That's often stated, but it hasn't been holding true. We are a factor of about
65,000 short of where we should be - if it was true. Moore actually said "18
to 24 months", but most everyone says "18". Anyhow, I did a test on it from
1971 to 98, and it actually averaged about 26 months for the doubling time (and
it was slowing).
+----------------------------------------------+
| Jud "program first and think later" McCranie |
+----------------------------------------------+
- --=====================_242090795==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
<font size=3>At 11:30 AM 6/6/99 -0600, Aaron Blosser wrote:<br>
<br>
>I suppose it depends on whether Moore's Law can continue to hold
true. I'm<br>
>not so sure that we can keep doubling speeds of processors every 18
months<br>
>as predicted...<br>
<br>
<br>
That's often stated, but it hasn't been holding true. We are a
factor of about 65,000 short of where we should be - if it was
true. Moore actually said "18 to 24 months", but most
everyone says "18". Anyhow, I did a test on it from 1971
to 98, and it actually averaged about 26 months for the doubling time
(and it was slowing).<br>
</font><br>
<div>+----------------------------------------------+</div>
<div>| Jud "program first and think later" McCranie |</div>
<div>+----------------------------------------------+</div>
<br>
</html>
- --=====================_242090795==_.ALT--
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 21:53:27 +0200 (CES)
From: "Gustav Schaffter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]
Definitively. But complaining doesn't really do much without a proof. It's easier to
prove a hack (in the form of illegal entry) or spam mail
than proving a troll, because a troll is defined by those being trolled (us) whereas a
hack or a spam is found in different log files.
Still, if nobody complains, no one will give the guy a healthy reminder. So, why not?
The worst thing that could happen is that they don't
care.
Gustav
On Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:29:12 -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>Is it okay to complain about a troller to his ISP?
>
>phma
>
In the immortal words of the captain of the Titantic, 'Where did all this
fucking ice come from?'
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:41:56 -0600
From: "Aaron Blosser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
> I have heard some insider news that Intel *could* hit the 1 GigaHertz mark
> by years end if they had a reason too (if AMD jumped out with a unexpected
> surprise). Once we start hitting the sweet spot in die size I am
> under the
> impression that they will start exploring the multiple processor route...
> Multiple processor systems are already becoming more mainstream. So I
> think we will be able to continue with MASSIVE performance increases over
> our lifetimes. This is assuming we stick with the Von Neumann
> architecture, new and EXCITING technologies (such as neural computing &
> massively parallel systems) are just over the horizon. These technologies
> and others offer us unimaginable new possibilities with their own unique
> strengths & weaknesses -- maybe when these new tools are out there we will
> find a new Algo. that better fits their strengths.
I'm pretty sure Intel already has test chips running at least that fast,
probably faster. Speeds like that only become mainstream when it's
affordable to mass produce such chips (higher yields) and people are willing
to pay more. I think they'd prefer to milk as much out of us as they can by
slowly introducing improvements, forcing us to upgrade every so many years.
Heck, if they just came out with a super fast ultra chip twice as fast as
what's out there now for about the same price, they wouldn't make as much
money in the long haul.
As for SMP, yes, I think you're right. It is becoming more mainstream.
With more Intel-compatible OS' capable of SMP, it's more reasonable to
expect someone to buy an SMP capable computer, popping in another cheap when
more functionality is desired, rather than shelling out for a new system.
Windows 95/98 was one big thing holding this market back, but with Linux and
NT on the upper end, and the forthcoming Windows 2000 which will be
attractive for current home users, SMP should be a big hit.
Abit just announced a dual Celeron motherboard (slot 370), even though Intel
won't support SMP with Celerons. At the low prices that Celeron's are going
for, it's hard to pass up. Sure, we can't test one number across both
processors (though I'd still like to see that someday), you can test 2 in
just a bit over the time it'd take to test 1.
I also wonder how much Merced will affect coding practices. With it's EPIC
architecture, programmers will have to rely on their wits more (the way they
should be), hopefully getting tighter code. Of course, George already has
his stuff about as efficient as you can get, so I'm thinking more broadly
than GIMPS.
> My understanding of the purpose of rewards like the EFF is posting is to
> foster new and innovative ways to solve problems that almost seem
> impossible at the time. If asked 10 years ago who here would have thought
> we would be testing numbers as big as we have... George & Scott's vision
> of this very project is such an example of break through technology, which
> allows us to advance in the scientific frontier at break neck speeds.
Perhaps vector processing technology like that found in high-end
supercomputers will show up more in low end PC's and CPU's. Certainly,
supercomputing technology has always tended to filter down, eventually.
>From what I learned about the discussions with getting an SMP version of
NTPrime for instance, it certainly seems that vector processors would do
much better in this regard, but would at least be faster than your average
super-scalar design anyway.
Aaron
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:14:48 -0400
From: "Pierre Abbat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Prime95 on linux, a tech question
On Sun, 06 Jun 1999, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I wouldn't recommend the "> /dev/null" command. If you start it remotely,
> the stdout and stderr usually (but not always) go to e-mail. This way you
> can still see the output and not lose any critical messages...
I pipe the output to a program that keeps the last 25 lines in a file.
phma
- ---
[phma@littlecat bin]$ cat runtail
#!/usr/bin/tclsh
# Reads standard input and writes the last n lines to a file.
# Usage: runtail n file
proc outem {} {
global n ;
global file;
global line ;
set f [open $file w];
for {set i 0} {$i < $n} {incr i} {puts $f $line($i)};
close $f;
}
proc scroll {str} {
global n;
global line;
for {set i 1} {$i < $n} {incr i} {set line([expr $i - 1]) $line($i)};
set line([expr $n - 1]) $str;
}
foreach {n file} $argv {}
for {set i 0} {$i < $n} {incr i} {set line($i) ""}
while {1} {
scroll [gets stdin];
outem;
}
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 17:15:46 -0400
From: George Woltman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
Hi all,
At 02:33 PM 6/6/99 -0500, Amy and Shane Sanford wrote:
>My understanding of the purpose of rewards like the EFF is posting is to
>foster new and innovative ways to solve problems that almost seem
>impossible at the time.
Absolutely. Otherwise, why offer a prize for a billion digit prime.
Even though the Lucas-Lehmer test is virtually unchanged for the last
hundred years. As recently 6 years ago, Crandall and Fagin published
the details for doubling the speed of the test. Perhaps there are
more theoretical or algorithmic improvements to come. (Anyone on this
list working on that right now??)
>If asked 10 years ago who here would have thought
>we would be testing numbers as big as we have... George & Scott's vision...
Don't credit me with any great vision. I have repeatedly made boneheaded
statements like "Our goal is to test all exponents below 1.3 million by
the year 2000". Scott Kurowski and Luke Welsh have had much better vision.
Best regards,
George
P.S. On the trolling issue: Don't worry about me - I have a thick skin.
There is no reason to jump in to defend me. If you feel you must, please
try to handle it by private email in the future.
It has been a pleasure working with all the GIMPS participants. GIMPS
memebers are a very pleasant and intelligent group to work with.
P.P.S. And for Pete's sake, do NOT reply to this P.S. or P.P.S!!
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Mersenne: EFF and 10,000,000 digits
> I'm pretty sure Intel already has test chips running at least that fast,
> probably faster. Speeds like that only become mainstream when it's
> affordable to mass produce such chips (higher yields) and people are willing
> to pay more. I think they'd prefer to milk as much out of us as they can by
> slowly introducing improvements, forcing us to upgrade every so many years.
> Heck, if they just came out with a super fast ultra chip twice as fast as
> what's out there now for about the same price, they wouldn't make as much
> money in the long haul.
And let me add that slowing the pace of mainstream release, to a certain
degree, is actually a good thing. Think of it this way. No one can predict
innovation. If Intel doesn't have the resources to support its innovation,
then we don't get any more innovation. If Intel slows things down to a
consistent pace and gets its money's worth out of it's past innovations
(Heck, there's even a market still for 386 processors, they make darn good
small office routers), then they can afford to support more research...
It's a never ending cycle that's supported by the consumer, who is also
its secondary beneficiary (The first being the stock-holders). Don't get
me wrong, it's all about money and capitalism, we just see the benefit of
it because our desire for more speed drives the capitalists...
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: WWW: http://www.silverlink.net/poke :
: E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Ask Mike! Aviation's response to Dear :
: Abby. http://www.avstarair.com :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:57:06 -0700
From: "Scott Kurowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: RE: Mersenne Digest V1 #568 & prize question
Hi all,
(A belated reply to the digest...)
> Subject: Re: [Re: Mersenne: Serious problems with v.18]
[cut]
> Your work to date on that exponent was disgarded
> (though you might still get credit for time spent--Scott?)
> because it was invalid.
Indeed - we gladly offer compensation CPU time credit in PrimeNet's accounting
system for work lost to the v17 to v18.1 software upgrade. Please email
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the exponent value and iteration or percent
complete at the time you upgraded from v17.
If your computers have contacted PrimeNet at any time since the first week of
April, any v17 clients will be clearly identified on your PrimeNet individual
account report. (Available at http://entropia.com/ips/accounts.html)
On a different subject:
On the heels of the probable find of the 38th Mersenne prime, I was undecided
upon about whether to ask all of you about a new prize pool for the next
Mersenne prime under 10M digits long. Obviously I've concluded, 'what the
heck' - I simply want your opinions. If you think the question is
inappropriate, please disregard.
GIMPS is certainly not about cash, and for those of you who offer your machine
time primarily for the value of GIMPS as an academic objective - and I believe
that is true for most of you - that is a very fine gift toward knowledge.
However we can't deny having seen cash prizes, in addition to this satisfaction,
make an observable difference in accelerating Mersenne number research results.
The $1500 I offered before the EFF contest began has since gone toward more
PrimeNet hardware. Between some GIMPSers, a new prize pool of $1111.11 has been
proposed (the radix is 10 :-) If you think it's worth a few (literally) of your
bucks to support their proposal, please let me know how much you would consider
'pledging' to a new GIMPS prize pool. A private response is fine.
No followup plans have been made - this will just give us some viability
measure. I'll later summarize it for the list.
Best regards,
scott
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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:14:23 +0100
From: Nick Craig-Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Prime95 on linux, a tech question
On Sun, Jun 06, 1999 at 10:58:13AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> First of all put the following at the bottom of your /etc/rc.d/rc.local
> file:
>
> /Your/path/to/mprime/mprime &
I'd recommend starting it as a particular user not as root. I like to
generalise this and give the user a script file to run at boot, eg put
this at the end of rc.local
# start the users' background jobs off
if [ -f ~user/.rc.local ]; then
su - user -c ./.rc.local &
fi
And then something like this into ~user/.rc.local
#!/bin/sh
(cd ~/mprime ; ./mprime -d >>out.txt 2>&1 &)
> To start it from the command line do this:
>
> nohup /Your/path/to/mprime/mprime &
Nohup shouldn't be necessary with the & if you are using a modern
shell (eg bash) though it certainly is necessary on some old /bin/sh's
- --
|- Nick Craig-Wood -- http://www.axis.demon.co.uk/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -|
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------------------------------
End of Mersenne Digest V1 #569
******************************
