Mersenne Digest Wednesday, August 16 2000 Volume 01 : Number 769
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:52:27 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Re: Athlons on DDR MBs
On Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 01:06:11PM -0700, Stefan Struiker wrote:
>much cooler, and the 700 (see review) has been pushed to nearly 900 without
>much complaint or special cooling.
Funny, my 800 usually reboots frequently while torture testing, even on `only'
880MHz... 800 is rock stable, though. (Non-DDR, though...)
/* Steinar */
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Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:32:22 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mersenne: GIMPS on Sun Sparc.
Nacho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will have a SparcStation at work and I want to put it to do some useful
> work with GIMPS.
{snip}
> A SparcStation is not a very fast machine and I will have it only for 6
> months, so perhaps it will not be very fast to do LL test in new exponents,
> and perhaps I'll do doublecheck better.
The "best" choice here depends on the type of Sparc, how many hours per day
you'll be getting on it, and your taste with respect to assignment type.
If you like to be able to turn something in at least once a month or so,
double-checking is the way to go. DCing is also a better use of the cycles
on hardware where there is a significant relative performance drop in going
from DC to first-time-test sized exponents. Interestingly, an old Sparc 1
is often better in this last regard than a top-of-the-line E450: the Sparc 1
shows lower relative performance at DC-size exponents, but suffers little or
no performance degradation at larger runlengths. So if you don't mind waiting
3-4 months for a result and prefer doing first-time tests, go ahead and set
your old Sparc to doing one.
> Are there binaries for Mfactor for Sparc/Solaris? I found Mlucas binaries but
> not Mfactor binaries. I don't have a f90 compiler.
No Sparc binaries at present, but Mfactor is written (not by me) in ANSI C,
so just follow the compile instructions in the source code header.
One caveat, though: for sieving up to depth 2^53, Mfactor performs OK on
the Sparc because it can use the FPU to help with the double-width integer
multiplies. However, the Sparc truly sucks at integer multiply (Jason
Papadopoulos likes to say that this is the *only* thing the Sparc sucks at),
so for sieving beyond 2^53 the Sparc will be pretty awful. You'd be better
doing the factoring on a PC (or not at all) and using the Sparc for LL
testing.
> I suppose that LL results are 100% identical to Prime95 results, so LL test
> will be accepted by primenet server in manual assignment, right?
Yes. You do need to paste *only* the exponents into the Mlucas worktodo.ini
file. When your latest job finishes, copy the last line of results.txt (or
of the *.stat file corresponding to the exponent in question) into the
PrimeNet manual tests form and submit. When reserving exponents, I suggest
you ask for the maximum amount of time (120 days); if the exponent isn't done
at the end of that period, you can extend the assignment by another 120 days.
Which CPU type you report to the server when requesting work is up to you.
I usually enter "Pentium" or "PII/PPro" so as to get a reasonable amount of
work (I'm not sure what weighting factor the server uses for machines entered
as "Other".) I suspect other Mlucas users do the same, which means that non-x86
machines are underrepresented (relative to their true numbers) on PrimeNet's
world test status page.
> If I use the manual assignment pages at PrimeNet, will I receive time credits
> at Primenet status pages?
Your manual test work won't show up on the PrimeNet server's pages, but will
appear on George's master list, www.mersenne.org/top.htm and ...top2.htm ).
I'm somewhere between #200 and #300 on the top2.htm page, and 90% of that
work is from Mlucas manual tests. (Admittedly, I have access to slightly
more hardware that a single Sparc, but every contribution is valuable.)
Happy hunting,
- -Ernst
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Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:06:42 -0700
From: Stefan Struiker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Athlons on DDR MBs: The "Science" Of Overclocking -- A
Bell-Curve Black Art?
"Steinar H. Gunderson" wrote:
> Funny, my 800 usually reboots frequently while torture testing, even on `only'
> 880MHz... 800 is rock stable, though. (Non-DDR, though...)
>
> /* Steinar */
For a good discussion of overclocking, and the many factors involved, see:
http://www.gamepc.com/article/show_article.asp?article=scienceofoc&page=1
Different batches of the same chip can surprise you with their cantankerous variance!
Best Wishes,
Stefanovic
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:12:42 +1200 (NZST)
From: Bill Rea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Re: Mersenne Digest V1 #768
>
> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:19:58 +0200
> From: Nacho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Mersenne: GIMPS on Sun Sparc.
>
> Hello everyone.
>
> Please excuse my english, I'm spanish.
>
> I will have a SparcStation at work and I want to put it to do some useful work
> with GIMPS.
>
> I was reading Mersenne pages about software for Solaris and it seems that the
> best program is MLucas 2.7a.
> A SparcStation is not a very fast machine and I will have it only for 6
> months, so perhaps it will not be very fast to do LL test in new exponents,
> and perhaps I'll do doublecheck better.
> I have some questions:
>
> Are there binaries for Mfactor for Sparc/Solaris? I found Mlucas binaries but
> not Mfactor binaries. I don't have a f90 compiler.
>
> I suppose that LL results are 100% identical to Prime95 results, so LL test
> will be accepted by primenet server in manual assignment, right?
>
> If I use the manual assignment pages at PrimeNet, will I receive time credits
> at Primenet status pages?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Bye!
It would have been helpful if you identified the particular model of
SparcStation you are using. I have run Mfactor and could make
a binary available if people want it.
If it is something like a 50 or 70Mhz Sparc 5 or similar I would
suggest you might like to contribute to NFSnet. I have one 50Mhz
SparcClassic which churns through a range in about 20 days. It's
really far too slow to be any use for GIMPS.
Bill Rea, Information Technology Dept., Canterbury University \_
E-Mail b dot rea at it dot canterbury dot ac dot nz </ New
Phone 64-3-364-2331, Fax 64-3-364-2332 /) Zealand
Unix Systems Administrator (/'
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 04:50:04 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Mersenne: Miscellany
Sorry for the continuing off-topic stuff, but some things were said that have
to be dealt with:
<< Version Visitors %
1. MSIE 5.x 1,705 53.26
2. Netscape 4.x 1,173 36.63
3. MSIE 4.x 224 7.00
4. MSIE 5.x (AOL) 54 1.69>>
This shows 4.95% of vistors are using browsers that cannot display PNG
images, disregarding Netscape 5 (which can) and Opera (which I think can as
well). Breaking the pages for the 12 Netscape 3 users is not a bad thing.
Thought: If a website uses images, does it necessarily have to care that
text-based browsers won't see them? No. Times have changed and text-based
browsers need no sympathy. You write that IMG tag without a second thought
for the poor text-based browsers. Same way here. If a website uses PNG
images or Macromedia Flash or Javascript, does it have to care that old
clunky browsers won't see this useful content? No. Times have changed and
obsolescent software doesn't need our sympathy. So write that IMG
SRC="abc.png" tag with impunity.
<<Netscape 4.08 supports PNG but ignores the alpha channel. kfm understands
the
alpha channel>>
Irrelevant, which is amazing considering that this is already offtopic. :-D
The GIMPS banners contain no transparency of any type.
<<I don't even know what PNG is. I sure as heck won't switch browsers to
view the trend-of-the-week. >>
PNG is *not* a trend-of-the-week thing. It's been a rock-solid frozen
standard since 1995, yes, 1995. That's when Windows 95 was released. Wow.
PNG is the unrivaled champion of lossless image formats, hands down, and on
that technical reason alone it's a good idea to switch. (Saves bandwidth,
more abilities, etc.) This is totally disregarding that other lossless image
format.
<<I expect page to have images which are jpg or gif.>>
<ZEALOT> I'm now disgusted with GIF images, if only because I'm tired of
living in an 8-bit color, 1-bit transparency world. I wouldn't stand for a
computer that ran with 256 colors, and I don't have to stand for an image
format that tops out at 256-colors and 1-bit transparency either. And has
terrifically bad compression either.</ZEALOT>
<<Simply being better doesn't mean it will become either the standard or the
most popular.>>
Doesn't matter. PNG *is* better, and PNG ought to be used on the GIMPS site
regardless of whether any other site does. The fact that 95% of browsers
support this format (at least the features that banners and the like use)
means that there is no reason not to switch, and every reason to make the
switch. This sounds like holy war talk, I know, but it's actually a sane and
thoughtful judgement of the situation. :-P
<<'portable network graphics', a new opensource based>>
It's actually not new. :-P
<<We now return you to your regularly scheduled newsgroup.>>
This is a NEWSGROUP?!? Since when?
Back to our irregularly scheduled *mailing list*....
Stephan "I read the PNG specification, and saw at once that it was
_beautiful_" Lavavej
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:47:14 +0100
From: "Thomas Womack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Utterly weird behaviour of mprime
Hi,
I just installed mprime v20 for Linux on the P3 box I use (perhaps it's
relevant here that the filesystem mprime is on is NFS-mounted from a server
somewhere completely different); and it's gone completely mad.
When I installed it, I was about half-way through completing M10540451.
First, it stopped working on M10540451, and did 21059 iterations of
M10725553. *Then* it conducted a complete P1 factorisation of M10725553,
finding a factor.
Rather than going back to M10540451, it collected M5290331, performed a P-1
test on it, and ran 1638401 LL iterations, before stopping work on that and
starting a P-1 factorisation of M9728591.
This is the same process running constantly, so it's not a matter of
stopping and restarting it at peculiar times.
I'm left with qA540451, pA540451, q5290331, p5290331 and m9728591 as
checkpoint files; my worktodo.ini reads
DoubleCheck=5290331,63,1
Test=9728591,64,0
I can understand starting the P-1 factorisation before finishing the
double-check, but I don't see where M10540451 has gone, or why the computer
did 21059 LL iterations on 10725553 before doing the factorisation.
Tom
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:42:32 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Re: Miscellany
On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 04:50:04AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Thought: If a website uses images, does it necessarily have to care that
>text-based browsers won't see them? No.
Yes!
>You write that IMG tag without a second thought
>for the poor text-based browsers.
Yes! And that thought is called an ALT= attribute. In the `new' HTML 4.0(1)
DTDs, ALT= tags are in fact _mandatory_ on every IMG tag. Remember that the
blind are to use the web, too... Similarily, people may choose to turn off
images if they're on low bandwidth, or just want a cleaner page.
>Same way here. If a website uses PNG
>images or Macromedia Flash or Javascript,
I think comparing PNG with Flash is... well, not good ;-)
>So write that IMG SRC="abc.png" tag with impunity.
Go on, say <IMG SRC="abc.png" ALT="GIMPS - We love you"> and I'll be content :-)
My point is, make the page look _good_ for the top 95%, and make it _usable_ for
the low 5%.
><ZEALOT> I'm now disgusted with GIF images, if only because I'm tired of
>living in an 8-bit color, 1-bit transparency world. I wouldn't stand for a
>computer that ran with 256 colors, and I don't have to stand for an image
>format that tops out at 256-colors and 1-bit transparency either. And has
>terrifically bad compression either.</ZEALOT>
But, on the other hand, is amazingly much simpler (you can quite easily write a
GIF reader in a couple hundred lines of C -- just counting the .c files in
libpng and zlib gives over 25000 lines of code) :-) But we've got computers that
are powerful enough now, I think :-)
>Doesn't matter. PNG *is* better, and PNG ought to be used on the GIMPS site
>regardless of whether any other site does.
Yes! :-)
BTW, has anybody pushed the site through http://validator.w3.org/ lately?
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 04:28:52 -0700
From: "John R Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Miscellany
> But, on the other hand, is amazingly much simpler (you can quite easily
write a
> GIF reader in a couple hundred lines of C
and spend a few lawyer-years negotiating with Unisys over payments for use
of the Lempel-Ziv patents....
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:22:28 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Re: Miscellany
On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 04:28:52AM -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
>and spend a few lawyer-years negotiating with Unisys over payments for use
>of the Lempel-Ziv patents....
No, the decompression is not restricted. Only the compression is.
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:24:54 -0400
From: Jeff Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Miscellany
At 12:42 PM 8/14/00 +0200, you wrote:
> ><ZEALOT> I'm now disgusted with GIF images, if only because I'm tired of
> >living in an 8-bit color, 1-bit transparency world. I wouldn't stand for a
> >computer that ran with 256 colors, and I don't have to stand for an image
> >format that tops out at 256-colors and 1-bit transparency either. And has
> >terrifically bad compression either.</ZEALOT>
>
>But, on the other hand, is amazingly much simpler (you can quite easily
>write a GIF reader in a couple hundred lines of C
And then pay Unisys a minimum of ten cents per distribution of that reader,
even if you give it away: up to 40 cents if you sell it. No, thank
you. That's precisely why the 'Net community got together and developed
the open-standard, royalty-free PNG format to start with. I avoid .GIF
like the plague, and advise others to do the same.
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:26:40 -0400
From: Jeff Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Miscellany
Wanna bet? Unisys strong-armed all developers of .GIF *readers* back in
1994 in to those contracts. I know. I was one of them. Both encoding
and decoding are covered by the patent. Any program that handles .GIF
files in ANY way (including, I might add, web browsers) is one that Unisys
claims patent protection and royalty payments upon.
At 03:22 PM 8/14/00 +0200, you wrote:
>On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 04:28:52AM -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
> >and spend a few lawyer-years negotiating with Unisys over payments for use
> >of the Lempel-Ziv patents....
>
>No, the decompression is not restricted. Only the compression is.
>
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:06:34 -0400
From: George Woltman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Utterly weird behaviour of mprime
Hi Thomas,
At 11:47 AM 8/14/00 +0100, Thomas Womack wrote:
>When I installed it, I was about half-way through completing M10540451.
From your descriptions it looks like the worktodo.ini file entry for
this exponent was lost. Edit your worktodo.ini file and add the line
Test=10540451,64,1 to the front of the file.
>First, it did 21059 iterations of
>M10725553. *Then* it conducted a complete P1 factorisation of M10725553,
>finding a factor.
There is actually a plausible explanation for this. I assume you have
different settings for daytime and nighttime available memory. When it
came time to run stage 2 of P-1 factoring the program could not
proceed because it was daytime and didn't have enough available memory.
Rather than do nothing, it started LL testing 10725553 because P-1
isn't likely to find a factor. When nighttime rolled around, it stopped
the LL test, finished the P-1 factoring, and rather luckily found a factor
(saving you the remaining 10,700,000+ LL iterations).
>it collected M5290331, performed a P-1
>test on it, and ran 1638401 LL iterations, before stopping work on that and
>starting a P-1 factorisation of M9728591.
This too is plausible! With only 3,600,000 iterations left you fell below
the "Always have this many days of work queued up" value. Thus it got a
new exponent. It then ran P-1 factoring on it to make sure it didn't
have a factor (if it had a factor then you wouldn't have enough work
queued up).
Hope that helps,
George
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:53:38 -0400
From: George Woltman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Fwd: New primitive trinomial of degree 3021377
Hi,
This might be of interest to a few mailing list folks.
>Here is our first result for r = 3021377: the trinomial
>x^r + x^s + 1 with s = 361604 is primitive over GF(2).
>
>For details see http://web.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/work/richard.brent/trinom.html
>
>Richard Brent, Samuli Larvala and Paul Zimmermann
Regards,
George
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:49:06 +0200
From: "Shot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: The names of the primes
Hello.
I just downloaded a signature randomizer program, and in it's
library I've found a nice one:
Once upon a time, when I was training to be a mathematician, a group
of us bright young students taking number theory discovered the
names of the smaller prime numbers.
2: The Odd Prime --
It's the only even prime, therefore is odd. QED.
3: The True Prime --
Lewis Carroll: "If I tell you 3 times, it's true."
31: The Arbitrary Prime --
Determined by unanimous unvote. We needed an arbitrary prime in
case the prof asked for one, and so had an election. 91 received
the most votes (well, it *looks* prime) and 3+4i the next most.
However, 31 was the only candidate to receive none at all.
41: The Female Prime --
The polynomial X**2 - X + 41 is
prime for integer values from 1 to 40.
43: The Male Prime - they form a prime pair.
Since the composite numbers are formed from primes, their qualities
are derived from those primes. So, for instance, the number 6 is
"odd but true", while the powers of 2 are all extremely odd numbers.
Cheers,
- -- Shot
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -------- http://shot.prv.pl/ -------- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14.08. na stronie 52 nowe cytaty
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lightening and tell how close you came to getting hit. If you don't
hear it you got hit, so never mind.
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 01:49:31 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Re: Miscellany
On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 10:26:40AM -0400, Jeff Woods wrote:
>Wanna bet? Unisys strong-armed all developers of .GIF *readers* back in
>1994 in to those contracts. I know. I was one of them.
Wow, this was totally new to me, and unlike everything else I've been told...
But then, I've never written a single GIF routine, so I can feel quite safe :-)
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 04:36:51 GMT
From: "Dennis Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: GIMPS: App error and dial-up
I'm reporting a bug that I just noticed, but it seems to be fixed now.
I am using a dial-up connection on an NT 4.0 machine, but I wasn't connected
to the Internet and my Prime95 client wanted to connect. Prime95 said it
would "try again in 60 minutes".
I rebooted my machine (for whatever reason) and when the OS finally loaded I
started Prime95. I got an app error (couldn't access memory location
0x00000018). I kept getting this app error until I connected to the
internet (to report this bug ironically) and Prime95 reported info to the
server. Now it works OK again.
Is this a known problem? If not, I can give more info on my system and what
I did to re-create that problem.
- -Dennis
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:49:04 -0600
From: "Aaron Blosser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: GIMPS: App error and dial-up
>I am using a dial-up connection on an NT 4.0 machine, but I wasn't
>connected
>to the Internet and my Prime95 client wanted to connect. Prime95 said it
>would "try again in 60 minutes".
>
>I rebooted my machine (for whatever reason) and when the OS
>finally loaded I
>started Prime95. I got an app error (couldn't access memory location
>0x00000018). I kept getting this app error until I connected to the
>internet (to report this bug ironically) and Prime95 reported info to the
>server. Now it works OK again.
>
>Is this a known problem? If not, I can give more info on my
>system and what I did to re-create that problem.
I seem to recall seeing this when the RPC dll was being used rather than
HTTP. Some machines I had weren't connected to a hub sometimes, and
apparently when rpc would try to contact the networking services, prime95
would crash with an error like that.
Switching to HTTP fixed it since the HTTP dll must be better at detecting
"no network" conditions and can abort gracefully.
Aaron
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:32:06 +0000
From: Alexander Kruppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Miscellany
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thought: If a website uses images, does it necessarily have to care that
> text-based browsers won't see them? No.
Yes. There are *many* blind people who rely on speech output of on-screen text.
A friend of mine gradually loses eyesight and is beginning to train for using
the speech output. Ever since I saw that, I kinda loathe web pages with only a
huge clickable image map on them. Text info on all elements of a web page is a
*Good Thing*, even if you dont count those who use old browsers or prefer
surfing with images switched off.
Ciao,
Alex.
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End of Mersenne Digest V1 #769
******************************
