Mersenne Digest Tuesday, February 27 2001 Volume 01 : Number 821 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:33:09 +0000 From: Gareth Randall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots CPU overheating? Have you opened the case, and checked the condition of the CPU fan? It sounds as if the CPU is overheating once the FPU warms up. Is your heatsink sufficient? Is it full of dust? Open it up while the machine is running and check that the fan really is spinning, and at a decent speed. "Steinar H. Gunderson" wrote: > After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer > (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. > Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted > _again_. > > If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer > doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start > mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. Yours, ======= Gareth Randall ======= _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:48:25 -0800 From: "Michael LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots > If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer > doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start > mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. > > mprime doesn't run as root, the machine has run mprime stably since I > got it (about a year) and the machine (an Athlon 800, running on an Abit > KA7-100 mainboard) is not overclocked. Does anybody know what's going on > here? Like I said, it's been going fine on the same exponent for quite a > while now, but suddenly, it just feels like rebooting (no error message > or anything, the screen just goes blank and suddenly it's in the BIOS). > The voltage meters in the BIOS screen look OK, and there should be more > than enough power for the PC... > > Strange... Any ideas? I also had a KA7 with an athlon 750. I had the exact same problem as you seem to have. For me, it only rebooted while running video editing software (on windows). The problem got worse and worse until it just died a couple of days ago. I took out the motherboard and noticed that some of the electrical components (the ones right in front of the processor) were all scorched and leaking some black residue. I think those components are the voltage regulator for the processor. Right before it died completely, it would only last a few seconds after being turned on. I turned it on and went into the bios's "PC-health" section just in time to see the processor voltage drop steadily to about 1.6v. Then the screen went blank. It might not be the same problem you are having, but it sounds similar. You might want to check those capacitors (i think...) in front of the processor. Maybe they are overheating? Or, I've heard that KA7's had a voltage issue with some graphics cards. Maybe it's related... Either way, I've ordered a SOYO board for a replacement. Michael LeBlanc _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:59:56 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 10:33:09PM +0000, Gareth Randall wrote: >CPU overheating? Hmm... The BIOS says the system temperature is at 25 degrees Celsius -- not exactly much, is it? Haven't got anything to measure the _CPU_ temperature, though... >Have you opened the case, and checked the condition of the CPU fan? It >sounds as if the CPU is overheating once the FPU warms up. Is your >heatsink sufficient? Is it full of dust? Open it up while the machine >is running and check that the fan really is spinning, and at a decent >speed. Actually my cover is off all the time -- the fan is spinning, and not full of dust (although there _is_ dust other places in the case). The BIOS says it's spinning at 4500 RPM -- not a bad number either. I might try to clean out some of the dust -- could that help? /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:02:32 -0500 From: "Paul Victor Novarese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots > > After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer > > (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. > > Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted > > _again_. > > > > If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer > > doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start > > mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. I had a similar problem a few years ago on a P166, and it was poor cooling. With a new heatsink and fan, and some decent thermo-grease it ran fine under full load. - -- Paul Victor Novarese KF4ZLI gammatron.weblogger.com _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:04:18 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 02:48:25PM -0800, Michael LeBlanc wrote: >The problem got worse and worse until it just >died a couple of days ago. I took out the motherboard and noticed that >some of the electrical components (the ones right in front of the >processor) were all scorched and leaking some black residue. Hmmm -- what components are you talking about? I don't see any leaking stuff at least (thankfully!) :-) >I turned it on and went into the bios's "PC-health" section >just in time to see the processor voltage drop steadily to about 1.6v. >Then the screen went blank. Like I said, the voltages seem OK. >It might not be the same problem you are having, but it sounds similar. >You might want to check those capacitors (i think...) in front of the >processor. Maybe they are overheating? Hmmm, doesn't really make sense (I think I see them now -- they appear to be OK)... >Or, I've heard that KA7's had a >voltage issue with some graphics cards. Maybe it's related... I've got two of them -- one Matrox Mystique G200 (AGP), and one Matrox Millennium I (PCI)... Never been a problem with any of them :-) /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:16:35 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 06:02:32PM -0500, Paul Victor Novarese wrote: >I had a similar problem a few years ago on a P166, and it was poor cooling. >With a new heatsink and fan, and some decent thermo-grease it ran fine under >full load. Yes, but like I said -- it's been running stably for _months_ under the same load -- and the system temperature shows 25 degrees Celsius -- how can the problem be poor cooling? It's not even overclocked! /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:04:01 -0600 From: Shane & Amy Sanford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots Checking your voltages & temps while in the BIOS probably isn't a huge help in this case. By the fact that you only have reboots after Prime95 has been running for a bit indicates it's a problem that is occurring under full load. In the BIOS screen your certainly not under any kind of load. What you need is a program that monitors the voltages & temps while it's under full load & records highs & lows. If you were running Windows I would recommend MotherBoard Monitor but I don't think it supports linux. That is the kind of program you need to find for Linux though. Regardless if you system is overclocked or not you should approach it as if it were. Suspect heat then voltage then double check bios settings then reseat all your cables, ram, cpu, & cards then if it is still doing it try a reformat. Shane _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:34:07 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 06:04:01PM -0600, Shane & Amy Sanford wrote: >That is the kind of program you need to find for Linux >though. I'm running lmsensors, but it appears like the values it reports are somewhat off... Anyhow, if the system is overheating, I'd suspect it wouldn't go from 70 to 25 degrees in a couple of seconds? >it as if it were. Suspect heat then voltage then double check bios >settings then reseat all your cables, ram, cpu, & cards then if it is still >doing it try a reformat. A reformat, of all things -- now, how was THAT supposed to help when I'm running Linux? (I haven't reinstalled Linux since I started using it :-P Windows, on the other hand... ;-) ) /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:37:32 -0800 (PST) From: Francois Gouget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, 23 Feb 2001, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: [...] > KA7-100 mainboard) is not overclocked. Does anybody know what's going on > here? Like I said, it's been going fine on the same exponent for quite a > while now, but suddenly, it just feels like rebooting (no error message > or anything, the screen just goes blank and suddenly it's in the BIOS). > The voltage meters in the BIOS screen look OK, and there should be more > than enough power for the PC... > > Strange... Any ideas? Run memtest86. It could be your RAM got bad so that you reboot each time the kernel tries to use its bad spot. http://reality.sgi.com/cbrady_denver/memtest86/ Though if it barely boots you may have trouble doing that. In that case try switching the RAM with that of another computer and see if it gets better. - -- Francois Gouget [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fgouget.free.fr/ Dieu dit: "M-x Lumi�re". Et la lumi�re fut. _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:39:42 -0800 (PST) From: John R Pierce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots > > Checking your voltages & temps while in the BIOS probably isn't a huge help > in this case. By the fact that you only have reboots after Prime95 has > been running for a bit indicates it's a problem that is occurring under > full load. In the BIOS screen your certainly not under any kind of > load. What you need is a program that monitors the voltages & temps while > it's under full load & records highs & lows. If you were running Windows I > would recommend MotherBoard Monitor but I don't think it supports > linux. That is the kind of program you need to find for Linux > though. Regardless if you system is overclocked or not you should approach > it as if it were. Suspect heat then voltage then double check bios > settings then reseat all your cables, ram, cpu, & cards then if it is still > doing it try a reformat. > http://www.netroedge.com/~lm78/ :) - -jrp _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:05:20 -0800 (PST) From: John R Pierce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots > > On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 06:04:01PM -0600, Shane & Amy Sanford wrote: > >That is the kind of program you need to find for Linux > >though. > > I'm running lmsensors, but it appears like the values it reports are > somewhat off... I've noted that various motherboards seem to require custom calibration of temp readings at least. fan speeds seem accurate enough. > > Anyhow, if the system is overheating, I'd suspect it wouldn't go from 70 > to 25 degrees in a couple of seconds? > The CPU core easily could shoot up in seconds. The motherboard, nah, that would take longer. Easy test, reach in there, and touch the edge of the CPU package. is it too hot to touch for more than an instant? then its too hot. prime95 *definately* heats up CPUs in a hurry. My p3-800E goes from a comfortable 85F or so when idle to 115F in seconds when I run Prime95. It takes longer to cool back down. Oh, 115F is about 46C. 85F is ~ 30C. The CPU temp should be fine as long as its under like 70C (although cooler is obvioulsy preferable, 50C is perfectly reasonable. - -jrp _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:06:22 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 04:37:32PM -0800, Francois Gouget wrote: > Though if it barely boots you may have trouble doing that. In that >case try switching the RAM with that of another computer and see if it >gets better. It boots and runs stably with no problems -- as long as I don't start mprime. /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:13:53 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 05:05:20PM -0800, John R Pierce wrote: >Easy test, reach in there, and touch the edge of the CPU >package. is it too hot to touch for more than an instant? then its too hot. Absolutely no problem -- it doesn't even _feel_ hot... I'd rather say room temperature. /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:46:14 -0600 From: "Jeramy Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots Steinar, I have seen this problem occur when there was a problem in one of the chipset chips. These chips can (In some, but not all cases) generate a good bit of heat when running a resource intensive program such as mprime, AND if there is a small flaw that has occured (Which can occur after a year or so of stable use.. I had a old P133 that ran for a year and a half perfectly..then this problem happend and it went on limping for about 6 months before finaly dying) and causes a fault when it overheats. Unfortunatly there isn't a way to measure their temps. other than touch (BE VERY CAREFUL or you could damage your computer when touching in the wrong place) or a pyrometer. >From the sound of things, I would place my money on that being the problem. Sounds like your CPU Fan is doing a great job at keeping it near room temp. (FANTASTIC for when runing mprime). Hope this helps, Jeramy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:18 PM Subject: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots > Hi, > > After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer > (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. > Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted > _again_. > > If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer > doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start > mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. > > mprime doesn't run as root, the machine has run mprime stably since I > got it (about a year) and the machine (an Athlon 800, running on an Abit > KA7-100 mainboard) is not overclocked. Does anybody know what's going on > here? Like I said, it's been going fine on the same exponent for quite a > while now, but suddenly, it just feels like rebooting (no error message > or anything, the screen just goes blank and suddenly it's in the BIOS). > The voltage meters in the BIOS screen look OK, and there should be more > than enough power for the PC... > > Strange... Any ideas? > > /* Steinar */ > -- > Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ > _________________________________________________________________________ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:23:05 +0100 From: Martijn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots Hello, Have you recently upgraded the kernel to 2.4 series? I had reboots for another program (netscape when I upgraded major kernel versions (kernel without the rest) Kind regards, Martijn _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:58:13 -0000 From: "Brian J. Beesley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots On 23 Feb 2001, at 22:18, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer > (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. > Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted > _again_. > > If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer > doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start > mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. As other people have suggested, it sounds like an overheating problem. Most programs do not use the FPU much, and the FPU is a major contributor to power consumption within the CPU. The fact that your heatsink feels cool(ish) suggests to me that the thermal bond between the processor and the heat sink has failed. (If the fan had failed, you'd toast your fingers making this test!) Actually I'm not overwhelmingly surprised. When I installed my Athlon 650 (slot A variety) I noticed that the heatsink was supplied with a nasty piece of thermal tape which you were supposed to stick the heatsink to the CPU cartridge with. (Note, all Athlon processors are supplied as OEM packages, you have to supply your own heatsink if you're a system builder). I replaced this with a dab of thermal grease & haven't had any obvious overheating problems in the approx. 11 months the system has been operating. But I rather suspect that anyone using the thermal tape will be getting somewhat inferior cooling, which might fail more or less completely when the tape cracks - a known age-related problem. Another possibility is that the chipset may be overheating. If the chipset has a cooling fan (probably a small one like those used on 486s) is that running too? Again mprime drives the memory bus hard & may trigger problems which remain hidden when the system is running a "normal" (read, light) load. You could investigate this by running an integer-only memory thrashing program like a prime number sieve. If running that makes the system unstable, look for a problem in the chipset (or memory - but serious memory problems tend to show up even under fairly light loads!). If not, it's much more likely a problem in the processor. Anyway, I'm afraid you're talking about a hardware problem rather than software. Regards Brian Beesley _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:58:13 -0000 From: "Brian J. Beesley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On 23 Feb 2001, at 17:05, John R Pierce wrote: > > prime95 *definately* heats up CPUs in a hurry. My p3-800E goes from a comfortable > 85F or so when idle to 115F in seconds when I run Prime95. It takes longer > to cool back down. Thermal inertia ... > The CPU temp should > be fine as long as its under like 70C (although cooler is obvioulsy preferable, > 50C is perfectly reasonable. This depends a lot on where the sensor is. Slot A Athlons do not have a sensor in the processor chip itself, if your system has a sensor it will be on a bit of wire wedged between fins of the heatsink. This is reading the heatsink temp not the processor temp. Allowing for temperature gradient through the heatsink (and the junction between heatsink & processor cartridge) I think 50C may be dangerously high if this is indeed the method of measuring the "processor" temperature. (Nevertheless it would still identify a failed cooling fan!) I think socketed Athlons usually have the thermistor mounted in the socket itself, which should be a bit more reliable as an indicator of true CPU chip temperature, although not as good as the Intel system where the thermistor is mounted in the processor package itself. Regards Brian Beesley _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:21:47 +0100 From: Lars Lindley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots Have you tried any other resource-intensive apps? If you get the reboots results with other apps (like seti) then you have a definite heat-problem or perhaps a memory-flaw. /Lars _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 06:34:08 -0500 From: Kel Utendorf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots At 09:58 02/24/2001 +0000, Brian J. Beesley wrote: >On 23 Feb 2001, at 22:18, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > >> After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer >> (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. >> Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted >> _again_. >> >> If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer >> doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start >> mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. > >As other people have suggested, it sounds like an overheating >problem. Most programs do not use the FPU much, and the FPU is a >major contributor to power consumption within the CPU. <snip> Did you have this problem before upgrading to the 2.4.x kernel series? As a simple test, try compiling one of the 2.2.x kernels and booting to that to see if the same thing happens. Maybe something about the 2.4.x kernels, your hardware, and mprime aren't playing nicely. Yet another $.02 contribution, Kel _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:16:30 +-100 From: Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots - ---------- After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted _again_. If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. /* Steinar */ Hello, I have the same problem with Win98se, when doing LL factorisation with numbers in the range 12M, on my Athlon 650 (with MSI K7Pro board). On my computer, it is not an overheating problem. It is working fine when I deactivate LL test, and just make Lucas test. Denis Cazor _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:40:54 +0100 From: Lars Lindley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots Brian Beesley wrote: > The fact that your heatsink feels cool(ish) suggests to me that the > thermal bond between the processor and the heat sink has failed. > (If the fan had failed, you'd toast your fingers making this test!) > Actually I'm not overwhelmingly surprised. When I installed my Athlon > 650 (slot A variety) I noticed that the heatsink was supplied with a > nasty piece of thermal tape which you were supposed to stick the > heatsink to the CPU cartridge with. (Note, all Athlon processors are > supplied as OEM packages, you have to supply your own heatsink if > you're a system builder). I replaced this with a dab of thermal > grease & haven't had any obvious overheating problems in the approx. > 11 months the system has been operating. But I rather suspect that > anyone using the thermal tape will be getting somewhat inferior > cooling, which might fail more or less completely when the tape > cracks - a known age-related problem. > Low quality thermal grease might dry up and crack also. Tip of the day to Steinar is to remove the heatsink and have a look at the grease/tape. Excessive use of grease will also impede thermal transfer. Always use a _really_ thin layer of grease. Grease is always preferrable over thermal tape. (If you don't need the adhesive qualities of the tape of course... :) /Lars _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 14:19:17 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 11:46:14PM -0600, Jeramy Ross wrote: > I have seen this problem occur when there was a problem in one of the >chipset chips. Hmm, sounds like I should try getting a replacement motherboard to test with? /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 14:19:54 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Sat, Feb 24, 2001 at 09:23:05AM +0100, Martijn wrote: >Have you recently upgraded the kernel to 2.4 series? >I had reboots for another program (netscape when I upgraded major kernel versions >(kernel without the rest) No, I've been running 2.4.x since 2.3.99-pre1 (and some early back in 2.3.x as well). The kernel version in question (2.4.1) had also been running for a week or so. /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 14:26:48 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Spontaneous reboots On Sat, Feb 24, 2001 at 09:58:13AM -0000, Brian J. Beesley wrote: >The fact that your heatsink feels cool(ish) suggests to me that the >thermal bond between the processor and the heat sink has failed. >(If the fan had failed, you'd toast your fingers making this test!) Hmmm -- interesting. This definitely sounds like a good thing to test out, although I'm actually not used to tinkering inside _those_ parts of the system... >Another possibility is that the chipset may be overheating. If the >chipset has a cooling fan (probably a small one like those used on >486s) is that running too? No cooling fan, so it definitely isn't running :-) >You could investigate this by running an >integer-only memory thrashing program like a prime number sieve. OK, will test :-) /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:22:31 +-100 From: Denis Cazor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: TR: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots Oops, sorry for the mistakes - ---------- After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted _again_. If I turn off mprime (v20), the problem goes away -- the computer doesn't reboot, at least not the 36 hours I tested. After I start mprime, it reboots in just a couple of minutes now. /* Steinar */ Hello, I have the same problem with Win98se, when doing P-1 factorization with numbers in the range 12M, on my Athlon 650 (with MSI K7Pro board). On my computer, it is not an overheating problem. It is working fine when I desactivate P-1 test, and just make Lucas Lehmer test. Denis Cazor _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 12:43:43 -0000 From: "Brian J. Beesley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: TR: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots On 25 Feb 2001, at 10:22, Denis Cazor wrote: > After being away for five days recently, I noticed that my computer > (running Linux kernel 2.4.1, by the way -- 2.4.2 now) had rebooted. > Just a few hours later, it rebooted again -- and that night, it rebooted > _again_. Accelerating rate of system hangs or spontaneous reboots, classic symptoms of a developing hardware fault. > > I have the same problem with Win98se, when doing P-1 factorization > with numbers in the range 12M, on my Athlon 650 (with MSI K7Pro board). > > On my computer, it is not an overheating problem. It is working fine > when I desactivate P-1 test, and just make Lucas Lehmer test. This sounds different! P-1 runs in two stages. Stage 1 is very similar to LL testing in system load & memory requirements. Stage 2 likes to use a lot more memory. So, does the system crash only when running Stage 2, or irrespective of whether Stage 1 or Stage 2 is running? If only during Stage 2, what memory usage parameters do you have set? (Options/CPU menu). If you allow Stage 2 to take more memory than the system can spare, you may well have problems. With linux, Windows NT or 2000 your system will probably just run very slowly, but Windows 9x/ME seem to be easily destabilized by a combination of heavy load and shortage of system memory. Try reducing both daytime and nighttime available memory to 64MB less than the actual memory installed, or 8MB, whichever is the greater. (The 64MB headroom could be reduced to 48MB on a Windows NT/2000 system, or 32MB on linux.) In any case, it would do no harm to download a fresh copy of the program, just in case the working copy has been damaged. The easy way to do this on a Windows system is to download Prime95.zip, exit the program, unzip just Prime95.exe overwriting the existing version, then start again. Regards Brian Beesley _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:53:32 +0100 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Spontaneous reboots -- status so far Well, I cleaned out some dust (wasn't very much) and put the case back on today -- rebooted, and now it's even worse than it was. Now it can only take 5-6 minutes, which isn't always even enough for system boot (which is SLOW, as RAID reconstruction and ReiserFS journal replay goes on at the same time and obviously makes the disk seek back and forth ALL the time -- this is nothing new, though)... So, I've turned it off, and will try to get a replacement motherboard/CPU for testing. Hopefully teachers etc. will understand my situation =). /* Steinar */ _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:56:44 -0500 From: "Brian Last-Name" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: CPU operating temps Seeing all of this information on spontaneous rebooting, I am beginnin to wonder why my computer works. I am running a Cyrix 233 OC'ed to ~266 by a faster bus speed. I cannot touch the processor heat sink for more than two or three seconds without pain, and the voltage regulators are even hotter. It has been running trial testing for over two years without many "issues". I havent even been using frag tape or heat conducting grease. What is the maximum operating temperature (recommended) for a processor? I will measure the temp. at the bottom of the heat sink while operating. Brian _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ End of Mersenne Digest V1 #821 ******************************
