now THAT is the kind of response i was looking for! thank you very much. would like excerpts from the above to use in local news story i'm doing on meteorite and indian artifact frauds if possible. i have found that in artifacts, most crooks go straight for the wallet and don't mess around w/ the cheap stuff and fake high -dollar paleos. i figured ensisheim would be the same. if anyone knows of commonly faked or intentionally misrepresented meteorites found anywhere ( web, flea market, ebay show,etc.) or if anyone has been burned, i would like to know. thanks again for such an organized response.
>From: Zelimir Gabelica <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim TKW
>Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 00:42:48 +0100
>
>Hi Anne, Joseph, Charlie, Eric, Steven, Julien, Thomas, Russ and list,
>
>I wrote a similar message a few days ago but it appears (at least to me)
>that it was not dispatched. I am trying again today but with much more updates.
>
>Many thanks to all of you who started to report the amount of Ensisheim
>meteorite that is resting in your collections.
> I especially appreciate when you tell me the source. The fact that, for
>example, Eric's piece comes from the Vatican collection and was before in
>that of the Marquis de Mauroy, is a nice story and a very interesting
>filliation.
>Knowing the former owners could perhaps soon result in a huge cobweb but
>this could also possibly help me in resolving many cross cuts and try to
>perhaps build one day a 510 years old family tree of the metorite. Nothing
>to loose to try.
>
>I was also impressed by the weight of the part slice owned by Joseph
>Murakami. 45 grams would put him close to the top of the "hit parade" of the
>meteorite lucky owners (excluding perhaps official museums that are by no
>means far on top).
> But so far, as the compilation of even tiny fragments can proove
>significant for the big total, may I suggest Joseph weighs his slice more
>accurately as every further fraction of gram is significant for us (and for
>him good to know). The milligrams of Charlie's or Steve's pieces mentioned
>for their accurately weighed pieces are significant to us as well and so is
>the 0.22 g fragment reported by Julien. Small gulches make big rivers.
>
>I also had in mind compiling the weights of Ensisheim meteorites owned by
>some official institutions and I'd appreciate curtators of these institutes
>or owners of the related private collections bring me their weights,
>corrections and/or additions.
> I was ready to start the official contacts but, in the meantime, Russ
>Kempton provided me with an invaluable list of repositories and private
>collection weights coming from his database.
>I am very grateful to him, as his list is a compilation of several data
>bases, probably recently updated. As many official data, it reflects only
>reported weights.
>At that stage, it is perhaps interesting to compare his data with those
>officially published in two other serious references, namely:
>
>1) the BM. Catalog (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) and
>2) our own "Red Book" archiving the History of Ensisheim ("ENSISHEIM, Son
>Histoire � travers les Pierres", edited by the Confr�rie St Georges des
>Gardiens de la M�t�orite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993, 133 pp, Table p 25 (World
>Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments, as compiled by J.
>Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably fragmentary and that
>need updating.
>
>Here is the result of my preliminary comparison of these 3 series of data:
>
>Place NEMS BM
>Catalog "Red Book"
>
>Ensisheim, Mus�e de la R�gence 54.51 kg 55.75kg
>55.75kg
>Paris, Mus. d'Hist. Nat 10.2 kg
>9.79 kg 9.79kg
>London; Nat. Hist. Mus. 911g
>911.2g 689g (!)
>Berlin, Mus. Naturk., Humboldt Univ. 906g 905g
>905g
>Vienna, Naturhist. Mus. 660g 588g
>(!) 660g
>Washington, U.S. Nat. Mus. 235g 258g
>(!) 458g (!!)
>T�bingen, Min.-Petrogr. Inst. 220g 316g
>(!) 316g (!)
>Uppsala Univ. Mus. -
>- 210g (?)
>Malta, Montana, Marlin Cilz Colln. - -
>504g (?)
>Tempe, Arizona State Univ. 155g 209g
>(!) 209.5g (!)
>Brussels, Inst. Roy. Sci. Mus. 191g -
>191.4g
>Z�rich, ETH 189g
>- -
>Modena, Min. Inst. Univ. 177g -
>177g
>Tucson, Haag Colln. 176g
>- 176g
>Cambridge, Univ.(GB) 133g -
>147g
>Chicago, Field Mus. Nat. Hist. 115g 109g
>110g
>New York, Amer. Mus. Nat. Hist. 112g 111g
>127g
>G�ttingen, Min. Inst. Univ. 111g -
>158.6g (!)
>Karlsruhe Univ. -
>- 142.0g (?)
>Stockholm, Naturhist. Riksmus. 80g -
>51.0g (!)
>Troyes, Mus. d'Hist. Nat. 79.1 -
>82.0g (!)
>Calcutta, Mus. Geol. Surv. India 77g 77g
>76.9g
>Copenhagen, Univ. Geol. Mus. 77g -
>77.0g
>Rome, Vatican Observatory Colln. 77g 76g
>77g
>Basel, Naturhist. Mus. 76g
>- -
>Strasbourg, Min. Mus 74g
>- 73.5g
>Dresden, Min. Geol. Mus. 73.4
>- 73.0g
>Oxford, Univ. Mus. 71g
>- -
>Kankakee, Illinois, J.Schwade Colln. 66g -
>105.0g (!)
>Buenos Aires, Asoc. H. Pampa 63g -
>-
>Prague, Nat. Mus. 51.5g
>- 51.5g
>Stockholm Mus. -
>- 51.0g
>Fischerhude, Koblitz Colln 42.3
>- -
>Oeschgen, Beat Booz Colln. 38.5g -
>-
>Paris, �cole des Mines 38g
>- 38.0g
>Hamburg, Mus. Min.-Petrogr. Inst. 36.1g -
>27.5g
>Moscow, Acad. Sci. 34g
>33.52g 33.5g
>Turin Univ. -
>- 32.0g
>Harvard Univ. Min. Mus. -
>- 27.0
>Massachusetts, NEMS Reference Col. 29.4g -
>-
>Freiberg, S�chs. Bergakad. 28g
>- 28g
>Hamburg Miner. Inst. Mus. -
>- 27.5g
>Bonn, Min. Mus. Univ. 26.9g
>- 22.2g
>Augsburg, D. Heinlein Colln. 26.5g
>- 26.5g
>Bern, Phys. Inst. Univ. 24.5g
>- -
>Gifhorn, Bartoschewitz Colln. 24.3g
>24.3g 24.3g
>Aachen Mus. -
>- 24.0g
>Cambridge, Harvard Univ. 21g
>- 27.0g
>New Haven, Yale Univ., Peabody Mus. 18g -
>18.0g
>Budapest, Nat. Mus. 17.5g
>17.5g 17.5g
>Z�rich, J.Nauber Colln. 14.3g
>- -
>Greifswald, Geol. Dept. Univ. 14g
>- 14.0g
>Ottawa, Mus. Geol. Surv. Canada 14g
>15.1g 14.0g
>Braunschweig, Techn. Univ. 12.5g
>- 22.2g (!)
>Canberra, Austr. Nat. Univ. 12.5g
>- 12.5g
>Kazan, Geol.-Min. Mus., Ulyanov Univ. 11.7g -
>-
>Tallinn, Geol. Inst. Acad. Sci. 11g
>- 17.8g (!)
>Moscow, Geol. Mus., Acad. Rural Econ. 11g -
>-
>Belgrade Nat. Hist. Mus. -
>- 11.0g
>Cluj, Min. Mus. Univ. 10.5g
>- -
>M�nster, Min. Mus. Univ. 10g
>- -
>Gotha, Mus. Naturk. 9g
>- 9.0g
>Sch�nenwerd, Bally-Prior Mus. 9g
>- 9.0g
>Los Angeles, Univ. of Calif. 8.8g
>8.8g 8.8g
>Grenchen, T.Stuedi Colln. 8.5g
>- -
>Algonquin, DuPont Colln. 8.0g
>8g 7.8g
>Freiburg, Min.-Petrogr. Inst. 7g
>- -
>Machecoul, Guibert Colln. 7g
>- -
>Rome, Inst. Min. Mus. 7.0g
>- -
>Bologna, Min. Mus. Univ. 6.5g
>- 6.5g
>Moscow, Min. Mus. Geol. Inst. 26g
>- -
>Wroclaw, Dept. Min. Petrol., Univ. 6g
>- 5.0g
>Heidelberg, Min. Inst. Univ. 5.9g
>- -
>Wroclaw Univ. -
>- 5.0g
>Philadelphia Acad. Sci. -
>- 4.9g
>San Ramon, T.Toffoli Colln. 4.9g
>- -
>Fort Worth, TCU., Monnig Colln. 4.3g
>8g (!) -
>Heidelberg, Max-Planck-Inst. 4g
>- 4.1g
>Helsinki, Geol. Mus. Univ. 4g
>- 4.0g
>Jena, Min. Inst. Univ. 4g
>- 4.0g
>St. Petersburg, Mining Mus. 4g
>- -
>Stuttgart, Staatl. Mus. Naturk. 3.2g
>- 3.2g
>Bern, Naturhist. Mus. 3.1g
>- -
>Paris, A.Carion Colln. 3.1g
>- -
>Tokyo, NIPR 2.3g
>- 2.3g
>Weimar, Goethe Mus. [J.W.v.Goethe Coll.] 2g -
>2.0g
>Freiburg, J.Otto Colln 1.7g
>- 1.7g
>Bologna, Astron. Observatory 1.6g
>- 6.5g (!)
>Utrecht, Lab. Geofis. Geochem. 1.5g
>- 1.5g
>Li�ge, Univ. 1.4g
>- -
>Stade, A.Seidel Colln. 0.8g
>- -
>Gloggnitz, Franger Colln. 0.5g
>- -
>Leonding, Raab Colln. 0.3g
>- -
>-----------------------------
>And from the first answers to my call, from the list:
>
>Honolulu (Hi), Joseph Murakami 45.??g
>Waldkirch (D), Renate & Michael Buckler 16.1g
>Oleye (B), Zelimir Gabelica Colln. 15.82g
>NEMS reserve about 9g
>......, Eric Olson Coll. 2.05g
>......, Thomas Webb Coll. 1.3885g
>......, Charlie Devine Coll. 1.346g
>......, Steven Drummond Coll. 1.342g
>......, Julien Courtois Coll. 0.22g
>
>----------------
>I did not made any total yet, for obvious reasons, essentially because
>nothing is complete and also because of some important discrepancies that
>appear from the 3 main compilations.The reasons for these discrepancies are
>various and I hope they will disappear progressively as my quest would
>progress. I also speculate that the values as compiled by Russ from recent
>data could be the most reliable so far, because the most recent. While the
>BM catalog is not complete by purpose, some data that appear in the "Red
>Book" are not on NEMS list. I'd appreciate Russel checking that point.
>
> It is also possible that the main weight held in some important museums was
>not checked accurately (Paris ?), as it was the case with the remaining
>piece held in Ensisheim.
>This latter must now be officially considered as 53.831 kg (see my preceding
>message).
>It is actually curious that, although this weight was only roughly estimated
>to be "about" 55 kg through ages, the officially reported weights from the
>above lists are quite accurate (54.51 kg and 55.75 kg). It should be funny
>to know who ever invented these numbres...
>
>However, from a first glance of a rough total in this preliminary
>compilation, it appears (so far, in the beginning of this quest) that we are
>far from being atteining the missing mass (between the initial 127 kg and
>the today total preserved), suggesting that there are far more pieces to be
>found to match that difference. In other words, it appears that there should
>be less frauds (false Ensisheim pieces) offered on the web, than suspected
>by Harlan Trammell.
>We have some ideas here where such missing pieces could be or on how they
>disappeared with time. But this is another story that I may write later.
>
>I am now looking to hearing from more of you, known, renown or unknown
>collectors and/or museum curators for your weight of your Ensisheim
>meteorite(s) or your comments on these data that I hope you are able to
>correct or complete.
>
>I warmly thank everybody in advance for that and for keeping me (and the
>list) in close touch. I will do the same by making the point from time to
>time, as per your suggestions.
>
>All the best to all and happy hunting!
>
>Zelimir
>******************************************************
>Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
>Groupe S�curit� et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu
>3, rue A. Werner
>F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE
>Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
>FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
>e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>******************************************************
>
>
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