Sterling wrote:
"Personally, I think the worry about accuracy of orbital maneuvers
is silly and mis-placed. Few human operations are are so precise. Think
about matching up with Vesta from hundreds of millions of km away!"
I can see it now: China say they are practicing mining and everyone
thinks, 'ok, the Moon is 50 years old', Venus and Mars have been done,
let them have their thing and waste their money on that foolish
endeavor '. While they put an orbiting Damocles sword around the Earth
which, if they choose, can make that crater, if they succeed as you
believe, right on top of the White House or Kremlin, and no heat
seeking defensive missle is gong to change that.
A false sense of confidence by the guys pushing the buttons is all we
need by systems governed by Finagle's Law. I think we have too many
weapons' risks in the world and am completely unimpressed by the idea
of going all out to get another Moon, no matter how small, given the
'silly' risk considering who will be controlling its orbit.
Comparing asteroids of unknown composition, rotational, vibrational and
translational energy, and variable tensile strength and mass which need
to be determined in-situ on the fly and and space vehicles carefully
assembled on Earth is apples and oranges - make that pygmy cherries and
gibberellically modified Edmund Scientific pomelos I dreamed of as a
kid. There is a vast amount of energy required for most of these
asteroid maneuvers, and a great deal of uncertainty to deal with in a
hostile environment for construction. It is not easy.
Now, why rock the boat at all. Just hook up some thrusters to the ISS
which will be about as visitable the way things are headed (or send a
separate mission) and have it hook up with an asteroid like 2006 RH120
(A temporary moon of Earth at times). If these NEO's are so close, no
sense fighting the steering wheel. Just go with the flow and do your
business, the world is already full of ##### drivers.
Kindest wishes
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Sterling K. Webb <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; MexicoDoug <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 11:07 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Doug, List,
I'll refer you to the book, "Mining The Sky," by
John S. Lewis, which makes a nice solid 260-page
case for the economic value of the asteroids. Or
to Harrison Schmidt's economic analysis of the
value of mining the lunar surface for REE's
(Rare Earth Elements).
Iron is worth about $0.25 per kilo, but nickel is
now over $12 per kilo, Lanthanum oxide $134 per
kilo, Neodymium $260 per kilo, and so forth.
Or maybe, just check this source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
"At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic
asteroid with a diameter of 1.6 km (1 mile)
contains more than 20 trillion US dollars worth
of industrial and precious metals." At today's
prices? A lot more.
The "not an iron" comment was in relation to
safety only. A 10-20-meter rock is safe to drop;
an iron that size is not. Personally, I think the
worry about accuracy of orbital maneuvers is
silly and mis-placed. Few human operations are
are so precise. Think about matchng up with
Vesta from hundreds of millions of km away!
The usual standard of accuracy is roughly akin
to shooting the eye out of a one-eyed Jack at
100 miles away. Routine.
Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- From: "MexicoDoug" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth
Orbit
Hello Sterling,
Well, since the purpose of this is to mine an asteroid, it seems >
pretty foolish to waste all that effort on a 10 meter rock which you >
won't allow to be an iron.
IT HAS TO BE AN IRON unless you want to waste money. Or do you want
> to mine antimony (element = Sb). That would be very successfully at
mining Antimoney (element = $$$ouch$$$) !!!
The problem is that most of the trace elements worth mining are >
siderophiles. So if you are going to mine silaceous, or most stony >
meteorites, I'd suggest going to a beach on earth (with a K-T >
outcropping if you insist ;-) with a tonka dump truck as the initial >
probe...
Even at the 1 ppm level (a gross exaggeration for a stony meteorite),
> there is 1,200 grams of gold in your 1,200 ton 10 meter diameter >
"spherical" asteroid. Now I know gold is getting expensive, but let's
> keep our feet on terra firma. If you are going to mine anything, it
> needs to be worth it. Considering that "mining" such a small body is
> an expensive proposition (how do you think it would be smelted in >
orbit), they'd be better off just bringing back the 1,200 grams of raw
> asteroid and selling it to scientists and collectors. So, no matter
> how you cut up this "pie in the sky" in a spreadsheet, it ain't >
workin'
Kindest wishes
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Sterling K. Webb <[email protected]>
To: Bernd V. Pauli <[email protected]>; >
[email protected]
Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth >
Orbit
Hi, Bernd, List,
A mere 10-meter spherical asteroid? (To a physicist, everything is >
spherical at the first approximation...) That's 523.6 cu. meters. At a
> rock density of 2 to 3 metric tons per cu. meter, that's somewhere >
between 1047.2 and 1570.8 metric tons.
As a disaster, it's on a par with dropping a grand piano on a cartoon
> coyote. It would be a slow approach and MIGHT drop 10 kilos of >
meteorites, but probably not unless it grazed the atmosphere at the >
correct angle. However, a 10-meter asteroid is a tiny playground.
What if it were a 100-meter asteroid, ten times bigger, and lots of >
surface (and about 1,000,000 tons). If you accidentally dropped that >
object on the Earth, you'd have a 250-meter crater and 0.2 MegaTon >
blast.
Too big to play with.
A 33-meter asteroid? Airbursts at 14 kilometers and splatters a lot
of > fast fragments, but no craters. From this I conclude that the
10-meter > asteroid grab is a Modest Proposal.
Unless, of course, it's an iron...
Sterling K. > Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernd V. Pauli" >
<[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> >
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan
To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
"Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong?" What if the nudge
>> is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if
this >> NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter
devestation - >> millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis -
earthquakes - tons >> and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere
- etc., etc. Bernd >> ______________________________________________
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