perhaps.
----- Ursprüngliche Message -----
Von: MexicoDoug <[email protected]>
An: [email protected]; [email protected]
CC:
Gesendet: 1:57 Montag, 30.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite
& quot; the meteorite had been carried in a medicine bag? It doesn't
sound
implausible, but what are the clues?"
Hi, Regine, Carleton, Mike, Bernd, Jeff, David, Listers;
I would like to draw some attention to the "carried in a medicine
pouch" since Regine asked ;-)
These guys are all with the Great Spirit now, who did the
excavations, so
we're stuck analyzing something that was contermplated in the 1920's
with the baggage of nearly an intervening century.
It is quite possible, like many things, that this medicine pouch
comment is a
comment run amok as usual with meteorites, someone says something,
then it
takes
on a life of its own due to tales getting taller,even among
conservative
scientists, unintentionally, of course, everyone just takes away a
different
idea and they follow natural 'election'.
The original comment seems to be that it was carried as "medicine",
rather than in a medicine pouch. While this seems to be a minor
difference,
it's not. One involves an inference and the other is more of an
observation.
Nininger later (1952) expounds on the comment when discussing Native
American
meteorite collectors and the medicine pounch has by then become alive
in its
own, through no one's fault.
The concept of "medicine" doesn't necessarily require a pouch, and
may not even be in the hands of a medicine man, why, it just as well
could
have
been a chief, or a brave warrior ... and could just as well be from a
great
deal
of handling. The observation was simply that at least three of the
protuberances above the regmaglypts depressions were highly worn from
what was
very plausibly a soft material. To make the leap to call it a pouch,
or just
a
lot of hands ... is a good philosophical theme for a room full of
meteorite
collectors and archeaologists without Regine's magic powder burns
evidence.
But the fact was, the wear was supposedly caused from a lot of
handling or
rubbing. That said, ablation is a strange master and it would be
verrrrry
interesting to revisit this "wear" which formed the basis of the
original archaeological comments.
What is for sure, apparently is that it was found inside the pottery
and that
in
turn in a burial ground. So there are some Spirits floating around
it.
Perhaps
Man & Impact Ed has a theory, it's his ballywick. But we do need to
see
it. Carleton kindly mentions that a couple of grams were at ASU,
that makes
sense that Nininger would take some. My fear is that calling this
pivotal
iron
"just" another synonym does no good to science if it is lost for
inspection. Apparently the piece weighed originally 3 ounces (about
85 g),
and
it was a complete individual subject to what was speculated to be a
violent
history, that is, after Nininger figured out how Glorieta ripped
apart along
of
course with Kunz.
But not only is the mystery with the original piece, this piece is
historical
in
that it was the first specimen that was used as a keystone to pair a
pallasite
fall to a siderite fall ... and help create the need to have a single
name
with
synonyms ... how ironic, errr... palladoxical ;-)
Kindest wishes
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Regine P. <[email protected]>
To: MexicoDoug <[email protected]>; bernd.pauli
<[email protected]>; meteorite-list
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite
Hi Doug, Bernd and all,
I too would like to know where this one is being kept. What baffles
me though,
how does one get to the conclusion the meteorite had been carried in
a
medicine
bag? It doesn't sound implausible, but what are the clues? Magic
powder
topping?
Is there any further info?
Regine
----- Ursprüngliche Message -----
Von: MexicoDoug <[email protected]>
An: [email protected]; [email protected]
CC:
Gesendet: 23:54 Sonntag, 29.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite
Hi Listers,
Paired - quite likely - It has a much more interesting history than
to be
lumped
as a synonym and IMO value as a named iron in its own right:
This particular iron showed a lot of evidence of wear from human
handling and
Nininger supported Mera's suggestion that it was carried in a
medicine pouch
in Pojoaque, which makes a triangle geographically, roughly, with
Santa Fe,
Glorieta, Mountain locality and Pojoaque pueble. According to the
circumstances
of the fine, it was found inside some old pottery during
excavations
at the
Pueblo, i.e., protected, and exhibited beautiful flow lines and
notable bluish
fresh fusion crust, indicating it was a reasonable possibility that
whoever
found it saw it fall. As it was found during excavations, it
raises
the
possibility of using this to date the Glorieta Mountain fall.
It would be nice to know where this meteorite is now. Did it make
it
to New
Mexico's collection? Nininger, in 1931, saw it in Santa Fe,
specifically in
the "Department of Anthropology", where Mera may have been
working.
But someone else needs to sleuth a bit further from here because I
sure
don't know where it is now, and it would be great to see it in its
present
condition ;-), as it was cut up a bit because Nininger and others
used it to
argue that Glorieta Mountain wasn't a siderite, but a
sidero-pallasite
combination as well as consolidate some of the names Bernd lists
...
I think
the
paper was 1940.
Definitely a specimen with a very special, if not sacred, history
...
Kindest wishes
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Bernd V. Pauli <[email protected]>
To: meteorite-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 5:03 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite
Hello Jeff, Mike, David and List,
David wrote: "It is indeed the synonym for Glorieta"
... and only one out of several others:
Albuquerque
Canoncito
Glorieta
Pojoaque
Rio Arriba
Santa Fe
Santa Fe County
Trinity County
Cheers,
Bernd
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