Wow, that hurts. Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2013, at 7:31 AM, Naveen Jain <[email protected]> wrote: > I wonder if this the same Matin Altman who scammed me fir 400K by selling me > garbage with absolute guarantee to return if I was 't satisfied. He refused > to take the garbage back after I complained. I am out 400K and this man is a > scam artist. > > Naveen > > On Jun 1, 2013, at 7:27 AM, "Michael Farmer" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ok, so no answers then. > I really don't understand your wit sometimes. Sorry it is above my head. > So you refuse to answer why you sold me plastic label when your add said best > provenance? Whoever bought the Bondoc and Murchison should step forward and > get rid of that garbage. > I am trying to see where this mess got started. Clearly you have no interest > in that. > See you in France, your piece will be hand delivered. > Michael Farmer > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 1, 2013, at 7:22 AM, "Martin Altmann" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Mike, it's enough. I'm not your Raspberry Tony. >> >>> I wrote to the list because you wrote ke a very nasty private email >> >> I sent you a single email, yesterday at 11:11 p.m. containing the same >> content about labels ect, just I wrote here today, >> plus offering you to send the Estherville back and to refund the purchase >> price and the shipment costs. >> That email didn't contain any single harsh word, neither was it nastier than >> the first email we wrote to the list today. >> An answer you didn't wrote to us, instead we could read your effusions this >> morning on the list. >> So stop that immature clownery or look for somebody else to play with. >> >> >>> Where is my refund? I will be happy when my money is back in my account. >> >> Your email yesterday came in half an hour earlier than our answer to you. >> As you might now, booking period of banks is in Germany (and Europe) ending >> at 5:00p.m. >> And booking takes place only on working days not on weekends. >> For accounting and tax purposes we have to withdraw each Paypal-payment onto >> our bank accounts. >> So we have first to refill the paypal-account again, which takes 2 working >> days. >> Hence probably Wednesday you'll get your refund, >> >> Which btw. matches the 5 days you had needed to pay the specimen. >> >> Else, much fun still in continuing, >> I won't support you in that, >> as in past you often enough you talked yourself in a ride or fall on this >> list, >> and anyway I trust enough in the competence of the collectors, >> to built their own opinion, what they will think about this. >> >> So see you in Ensisheim, >> Until then I won't be at your disposal here. >> Have a nice day, >> Martin >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Michael >> Farmer >> Gesendet: Samstag, 1. Juni 2013 15:38 >> An: Martin Altmann >> Cc: <[email protected]> >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites sold from Europe, not as described >> >> Martin, >> Do you feel a plastic label printed on your home computer qualifies as an >> "American Meteorite Laboratory" passport as you write in your email? >> I can print such things in seconds, as can anyone. So by using your >> "usually" very high standards, I can print €500 notes on my computer, as >> long as I put the name of the European bank reserve on the fake, it would >> make it a real €500 note? I think I'll try to pass a few around at dealers >> tables in Ensisheim and see how many rocks I can buy. >> Sorry but this collector is calling your "passport" a fake travel document. >> >> You sold this Estherville to me as an extremely rare well documented piece, >> you clearly state that it is with AML labels, but there is no AML label, >> just a plastic modern-made card. You know it is NOT am AML label, and >> selling it as such is a scam. Since there is not label, no number on the >> stone, absolutely nothing to show provenance, clearly the entire email you >> spent hours writing was a sales gimmick. You know I am a knowledgeable and >> serious collector, so why you would pass off this manufactured piece to me I >> don't know. Surely knowing my temper as you right here, you would know what >> the response would be? The only reason I bought it is because you stated it >> was AML with label. I figured that if it has an AML label then I was safe. I >> did not consider that I would receive a plastic card in substitute for AML >> documentation. I don't know who did it, or what "Romanian" collection it >> came from, I can't understand how you passed that off as acceptable. >> >> Where is my refund? I will be happy when my money is back in my account. >> >> Why you are defending these fake pieces with a story about a mislabeled >> meteorite I sold years ago I am not sure. The piece was cut and yes, it was >> in the wrong box or bag or whatever. >> Mistake yes, fraud of making and selling fake old labels and provenance, no. >> I have made at least one mistake mixing up a piece, but you know what, >> thankfully a collector caught it, I OK'd him to cut and see and once cut we >> recognized the error and removed the piece. The way things should go. >> >> I wrote to the list because you wrote ke a very nasty private email telling >> me how many decades you have been selling and how you could just resell the >> piece angered me. You know they are fake, now the whole list knows, you can >> compare your "murchison" to real murchisons and see there is no comparison. >> I don't want them resold onto perhaps other less knowledgable collectors. >> >> Something really really is fishy is going on here. >> >> By the way, you sold me and others these pieces in this forum, so why not >> clear it up in this forum? >> I also do not want to see these things sold and resold for years to come. >> >> What about the obvious fake Murchison? You don't even answer as to why you >> are selling such a piece. >> >> I am really concerned at how this has come to pass. >> >> Michael Farmer >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 1, 2013, at 5:05 AM, "Martin Altmann" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Mike and all, >>> >>> >>> it’s really always sad, to experience, what internet did to some, >>> regarding communication, couth and manners. >>> As told yesterday to you, as you are obviously not content with the >>> specimen, we offered you to send in back and to refund you. >>> Your temper and your readiness to doom and damn each and everyone in >>> public, as soon as an opportunity shows up, is legendary on that list >>> here, as the archives tell manifold and that behavior caused so many >>> new collectors to turn their backs on to their new hobby, when they >>> read your endless flame wars here on the list, because they had >>> imagined meteorite collecting more august than to witness brawls on the >>> fish-market. >>> >>> Here you can observe a difference about Andi’s and my notion of the >>> meteorite scene, we never took advantage in trying to badmouth you, >>> when you sold e.g. a “Bensour” of 85g to S.A. which landed with your >>> label at M.V., who asked you again and you identified it without >>> doubts as Bensour, but after he cut it, it turned out to be H and rather a >>> Bassikonou. >>> >>> To the specimens. >>> They originally stem from an old private collection from Hungary. A >>> collection from pre-desert times. >>> As you might remember even from the times, when you were still >>> peddling with your little bag with your sales inventory from client to >>> client, in former times, the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s – the idea of >>> “pedigree”-collecting wasn’t born yet, the fascination emanating from >>> the specimens themselves, the fact that they were meteorites, was for >>> the collectors overwhelming enough, so that they did not need the >>> little extra-boost of having a written note, from whom they had >>> acquired them (because they knew it anyway). Hence they were proud on >>> the specimens as they were now their specimens, so they wrote their >>> own labels and threw often the labels of the sellers/source away. >>> I don’t know how many specimens you acquired from private collections >>> of these times, but you will agree, that the majority of such >>> specimens comes without any label or they come with the label of the >>> collector, and we at least had dozens of cases, where the old original >>> label was preserved, but where the collector had cut off the part with >>> the name of the dealer or the museum. >>> Here with these two specimens of Estherville and Bondoc, it was a >>> luck, that the labels – why the collector enlarged and laminated once >>> them we don’t know, maybe for his collection filing box – gave the >>> hint, where the collector once had acquired them from. >>> They were Huss specimens. And Huss at that time wasn’t the glorified >>> successor of Nininger, he was nothing else than a dealer for his >>> contemporaries, just like today, a Hupe, a Haiderer or a Cottingham for us. >>> >>> If you take Bondoc, the specimen numbers are absolutely consistent >>> with all the numbers of the Huss-Bondocs offered by Geoff Notkin, or >>> at Arnaud in the Tricottet Collection or on Murray’s fine new >>> collection site or those Peter Marmet showed us. >>> Btw. none of these is listed in the both Huss-catalogues, none of >>> these got a number painted on the surface by Huss. >>> (We would have expected you to know that, as U.S.-expert) >>> >>> As told, we are convinced of the authenticity of the specimens, as >>> well as those esteemed list members, who had them already in their hands. >>> And as it is our policy, we offer always a return to our private buyers. >>> So thank you Anne, Jeff and Mike for your efforts, to keep the “Market” >>> clean, but we don’t see yet any reason for hysteria. >>> (Aside from the likeliness, that we after 33 years of meteorite >>> collecting and 10+ years meteorite dealing, would have nothing better >>> to do, than to forge Esthervilles and Bondocs and to fake a legend, to >>> sell them at those cheapest prices we did). >>> >>> However, and there you most probably will agree, we see no sense in a >>> written theoretical discussion here on the list, but like it the sober >>> way. >>> You’ll bring the Estherville to Ensisheim, we got so many requests for >>> that very specimen and there are so many experts, who will identify it >>> as that, what it is, that we won’t be in no way reluctant or shy to >>> show the specimen to each and everyone, who wants. >>> Therefore we will adjourn the further theatre, if you don’t mind, >>> until 3 weeks. >>> >>> >>> Martin & Andi >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list [email protected] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
