Jason,
Speaking of "gaslighting", you once bragged about majoring in
psychology. Professionals in other parts of the country avoid slang
terms. In slang terms, you are "gaslighting" by accusing me of
"gaslighting."
The exact location of NWA 1110 is known and the Meteoritical Society
approved the entire lot making it official. Apparently they had faith
in the classifying scientist. Images were captured of the crude
recovery operation using a motorcycle fender as a shovel and and a
window screen as a sieve. NASA liked these images so much they there
were posted in the hallway outside the Lunar Receiving Laboratory at the
Lydon B. Johnson Space Center the last time I was there.
Link to images:
http://www.lunarrock.com/meteorites/martian/nwa1110.html
Your argument about NWA 869 holds no water either since a special
exception was made for this particular meteorite in regards to pairings.
No such exception has ever been made for any other meteorites that I
am aware of.
We have been through this debate before as you state. That is why I am
not going to waste much time with you. You wasted many hours of the all
volunteer board of the IMCA several years ago with your false
accusations and a complaint against yourself. You accused half of the
board members on the IMCA of the same thing you were accused of in an
attempt to redirect blame which sounds like "gaslighting" to me. They
dismissed your complaints due to a lack of merit.
The complaint against you, on the other hand, about self-pairing a Black
Beauty stone, which was never paid for according to the seller, resulted
in a different outcome. This is one of many reasons your membership was
revoked and any level of respect you once had, dissipated.
You went onto creating a "Meteorite Dealer Hall OF Shame" list according
to a reliable source. I heard this list will be updated soon. Good luck
with the legal repercussions.
If I were you, I would worry more about your Social Media Profile since
you were or are planning a career in meteoritics and all your
badmouthing and posturing has not gone unnoticed.
It is interesting that guilty parties nearly always accuse their
accusers of what they are guilty of themselves.
Adam
On 11/4/2017 12:13 PM, Jason Utas wrote:
We've had this discussion before, Adam. You're gaslighting.
The pairing rules are very clear and can be read in section 4.2 (a) and
(b) of this link: https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/docs/nc-guidelines.pdf
Key statements:
1) "a single (collective) name may be given in cases where fragments fit
together or similar-looking fragments are found within a few meters of
each other"
2) "Two or more newly discovered meteorites in dense collection areas
may be considered paired with each other or with another formally named
meteorite if there is overwhelming evidence, including geographic data
that are consistent with the meteorites being part of a single fall."
When you buy a bag of "NWA 1110" from a dealer in Morocco, you have no
idea where they're from or if they were actually picked up in the same
place. Every single fragment needs to get its own NWA number and needs
to be analyzed. Type specimen, etc. Unless the fragments physically
fit together and/or you have an in-situ photo showing them sitting
together on the ground, you're breaking Nomenclature Committee guidelines.
You can't just "pair" a pile of stones by looking at them, or by having
someone else look at them. You can have them all analyzed and show that
they're internally *identical.* Doesn't matter. They all need their
own NWA numbers and type specimens.
And don't just think this applies only to planetaries. You bought a 20
kilogram sack of "NWA 869?" Every single stone needs to be cut and
analyzed if you're going to sell it as NWA 869. Except...you can't even
do that. Even if they are all analyzed and all fall in the range of
L3.8-6, like NWA 869, each fragment will still need its own NWA number
because you still don't have any proof of where they were found.
Those are the rules, and you've broken just as many of them as anyone
else. These are guidelines written for scientists, by scientists. This
is how stones are recovered and dealt with in places like Antarctica.
Every detail of a stone's recovery is meticulously recorded, and every
(sub-gram!) fragment is analyzed. The only people I know who have
followed such guidelines are the hunters in DCAs like Skip Wilson, who
actually record every single stone they find.
You -- and every other collector and dealer -- have played by different
rules. Even the IMCA has bought into a different set of rules that
protect dealer interests: they say that you can't use "another meteorite
dealer's NWA number," but once you get a stone analyzed, you're allowed
to "self-pair" anything you want to that analysis, essentially without
scrutiny. This has led to a fair amount of misrepresented material in
circulation, from "NWA 869," to the mix-and-match Martian and Lunar
pairings of recent years.
Nomenclature Committee guidelines haven't been followed since NWA
meteorites were in the single digits, by you or anyone else. As John
Shea said before, pairing material at one's discretion is only as
reliable as the dealer doing it.
Jason
On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
<mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>> wrote:
Thank you for the last word and the concern for my reputation.
These piggy-backing and self-pairing debates have gone on long
before you became in interested in meteorites.
My advice, since you are a member, is to read the IMCA bylaws which
are all about authenticity and adhering to Meteoritical Society
rules which do not support piggy-backing and self-pairing.
Adam
On 11/4/2017 10:20 AM, Martin Goff wrote:
Adam,
I am more than comfortable with my reputation and what I have
contributed to the world of meteorites. I don't need to blow
smoke up
my arse or have the need to constantly have others prop up my
fragile
ego. As for your opinion of me, well it's quite obvious I could not
care a jot what your opinion is, it is meaningless to me as it is to
most! (a fact that is backed up by all of the messages I've had in
private :-)) And as for calling you out, whether on this list or on
Facebook, how you can state that that is 'behind your back' just
shows
your levels of paranoid delusion! This list and facebook are both
public forums and I am more than happy to speak my mind on either!
And as for the rest of your garbled message, if it was actually
coherent, readable and understandable then I might be able to
reply..........
But, as Johannes says folk are here to talk about meteorites so I
won't bore them by responding further. However I'm more than
sure that
you'll want to have the final word and cement your reputation as
someone who is losing the plot by clambering onto your rickety
soapbox
and ranting further whilst dribbling into your bib..................
Cheers
Martin
Martin Goff
www.msg-meteorites.co.uk <http://www.msg-meteorites.co.uk>
International Meteorite Collectors Association (IMCA) member #3387
On 4 Nov 2017 16:50, "Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list"
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
<mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>> wrote:
A none answer is still an answer. I will take it that you
have made no contributions in the short time you have been
into meteorites.
Here are a few quotes from you about me on Facebook from
Martin Goff; "He is pompous prick! Just dissing everyone
else to try and keep the crown on NWA 5000" and, "He keeps
on saying he is leaving meteorites and most folk wish he'd
just do as he says....." I wont post the latest comments on
Facebook since they are mainly posted by dealers and
demonstrate high level of immaturity. Talking behind
somebodies back is a sign cowardice, a trait wherein fear
and excessive self concern override good judgement.
You and others have an interest in Black Beauty may be one
reasons you are speaking out. Collectors deserve to know
that are thousands of grams of this material being held back
and not reported.
Curious minds want to know what contributions you have made
giving you the right questions others true colors?
There are dust makers and dust eaters.
Adam
On 11/4/2017 9:24 AM, Martin Goff wrote:
Adam, if you weren't blinded by pomposity and your own
bloated sense
of self worth then you'd know exactly what my
contributions were/are
to the meteorite community. Your inflated sense of self
importance and
continued self stimulation of blowing your own trumpet
means that as
Jason says, people will call you out. If it wasn't for
your continued
bullshit spout out to this list folk would just ignore
you, as they
have for years..........
Cheers
Martin
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