Ooops. I inserted the Excel table and sent the email as rich-text format. Obviouly, emails are transformed into unformatted text-only file when they arrive at list members. The formatting is lost and the content is hard to read. Sorry!
Joern > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: J�rn Koblitz > Gesendet: Freitag, 19. M�rz 2004 15:11 > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Adam Hupe > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Betreff: AW: AW: AW: [meteorite-list] Amgala, Tsarev and Zag > > > > Below is a table of H/L chondrites as found in MetBase. > Yamato 8424 is NOT a member of the H/L group, but a polymict > breccia mainly of H clasts in an LL host. For unequilibrated > H/L3 chondrites, it is not easy to identify them as being > members of this transitional group since their average > fayalite and ferrosilite compositions tend to shift to lower > values. A typical feature of unequilibrated chondrites (Fa/Fs > percentage mean deviations (PMD) increase, mean values decrease) > > Joern > MetBase > > name class Fall? country date TKW kg breccia shock > weathering fa_avg fs_avg latitude longitude > Bremerv�rde H/L3.9 Y Germany 1855/05/13 7,25 > Y S2 W0 18.6 53�24'N 9�6'E > Dar al Gani 369 H/L3.5 N Libya 1997/10/20 > 1,001 S2 W3 16.8 9.1 27�56.92'N > 15�54.08'E > Dar al Gani 378 H/L3 N Libya 1997/10/21 > 0,068 S3 W2 14.3 7.9 27�54.97'N > 15�50.27'E > Dar al Gani 591 H/L6 N Libya 1998/03 0,09 > S2 W3 20.0 17.4 27�39.32'N 15�59.54'E > Dhofar 428 H/L5 N Oman 2001/03/28 0,526 > S2 W4 21.5 18.5 18�47.394'N 54�29.311'E > Tieschitz H/L3.6 Y Czech Republic 1878/07/15 > 28 S3 W0 49�36'N 17�7'E > Y 74645 H/L4 N Antarctica 1974/12/28 > 0,0356 C 21.1 17.9 71�30'S 35�40'E > Y 8424 H/L/LL N Antarctica 1984 0,00946 > Y 23.1 17.0 71�30'S 35�40'E > Y 9405 H/L4 N Antarctica 1994/12 0,00483 > 71�32'49"S 35�24'07"E > > > > > > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Gesendet: Freitag, 19. M�rz 2004 04:40 > > An: Adam Hupe > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [meteorite-list] Amgala, Tsarev and Zag > > > > > > Adam and others, > > > > What do we know about H/L's beyond what Joern said? > > Bernd...you gave us some thought on the H/L > > NWA 1955. You seemed very intrigued by what you saw. Any comments. > > > > If you ever saw Haxtun in thin section...it is very strange > > indeed. To me it is one of the > > coolest(as in awesome) thin sections I've ever seen. > > > > More on H/L's would be good. > > > > John > > > Hi John and group, > > > > > > I enjoyed the reading when I returned this afternoon. I > > was unaware that > > > polymict breccia chondrites were rarer than regolithic > > breccias. I guess > > > there is always room to learn something new and when the > > List is used > > > properly it can provide educational gems such as this. I > > think the term > > > transitional is used to describe an H/L classification. > > This means to me > > > that the chondrite came from a completely different parent > > body than an H or > > > an L therefore it is not the mixing of two parent bodies. > > Since I never > > > studied the H/L designation and only a few exist there is > > room here for > > > something to be learned. > > > > > > Sounds like an interesting subject, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "J�rn Koblitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:51 PM > > > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [meteorite-list] Amgala, Tsarev and Zag > > > > > > > > > > Joern, > > > > > > > > Thanx a lot for the great answers. I think many will > > benefit from this > > > exchange. > > > > I know Adam will be happy that you helped his cause to > > highlight the > > > uniqueness of the polymict chondrite feature of Amgala. Now > > we'll wait for > > > those results...How about it Adam? > > > > > > > > Couldn't the H/L's get mixed together in space to create a > > > polymict...seems reasonable, even if we don't have a good example > > > yet...maybe Amgala will be just that. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > John > > > > > Dear John, > > > > > > > > > > I think, for chondrites, regolith breccias (monomict or > > genomict) are > > > quite more > > > > > abundant than polymict breccias. The opposite is true > > for achondrites. > > > Polymict > > > > > breccias, especially eucrites (howardites are polymict > > by definition!) > > > are quite > > > > > often polymict (there is an unusual high fraction of > > polymict eucrites > > > from > > > > > Antarctica), whereas regolith breccias are rather > > common only for > > > lunaites (e.g. > > > > > anorthositic highland breccias), which are - by definition - > > > achondrites. A nice > > > > > example for another regolithic achondrite is the > > howardite Kapoeta > > > (higly > > > > > solar-gas-rich material). > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the H/Ls (Bremervoerde, NWA 1955, > > Tieschitz...): these aren't > > > polymict > > > > > breccias containing H and L lithologies, but members > of a group > > > intermediate > > > > > between H and L chondrite in terms of composition and isotopic > > > signatures. They > > > > > likely come from a parent body (PB) distinct from the > > PBs of both, the L > > > and H > > > > > chondrites. Though they are breccias, they are not > > mixing products of L > > > and H > > > > > material. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > Joern > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > > ___ > > > > > Joern Koblitz > > > > > MetBase Editor > > > > > The MetBase Library of Meteoritics and Planetary Sciences > > > > > Benquestrasse 27 > > > > > D-28209 Bremen, Germany > > > > > phone: +49 421 24 100 24 > > > > > fax: +49 421 24 100 99 > > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > ______________ > > > ___ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht----- > > > > > > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. M�rz 2004 19:44 > > > > > > An: J�rn Koblitz > > > > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Betreff: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Amgala, Tsarev and Zag > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joern, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanx for the clarification on regolith versus the basic > > > > > > breccia types. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as chondrites go...is a genomict breccia with a > > > > > > regolith history like Zag more or less unusual when compared > > > > > > to a polymict breccia for chondrites, as in the > supposed case > > > > > > for Amgala? I ask this since you did point out that > > > > > > achondrites are the ones that usually have the polymict > > > > > > breccias, and not chondrites. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this make NWA 1955 (H/L 3-4) a polymict > breccia also? Or > > > > > > does its classification as being unequilibrated chondrite > > > > > > make it different than a breccia per say? > > > > > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tsarev noble gas data data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he_3 he_4 ne_20 ne_21 ne_22 ar_36 ar_38 ar_40 > > > > > > > 1,58 121 0,54 0,54 0,60 0,42 0,11 575 > > > > > > > 2,07 108 0,78 0,82 0,88 0,83 0,20 1635 > > > > > > > all values: x 10E-8 cc STP/g > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reference: Herzog G. F., Vogt S., Albrecht A., > Xue S., Fink > > > > > > D., Klein J., > > > > > > > Middleton R., Weber H. W. and Schultz L. (1997) Complex > > > > > > exposure histories for > > > > > > > meteorites with "short" exposure ages. Meteoritics > > 32, 413-422. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to this, Tsarev isn't a regolith breccia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: A regolith breccia can be either polymict (different > > > > > > source types of > > > > > > > clasts, e.g., H3 + L6), xenolithic (some minor exotic > > > > > > (non-host type) clasts, > > > > > > > e.g. CM clasts in L6 host), genomict (same material type > > > > > > but different > > > > > > > petrologic grades, e.g. H3 + H5), or monomict (e.g. light > > > > > > H3 + dark H3 > > > > > > > (irradiated) lithologies). Usually, regolith breccias are > > > > > > monomict or genomict > > > > > > > breccias. Achondrites are often polymict breccias (e.g. > > > > > > howardites, eucrites, > > > > > > > diogenits, ureilites, lunaites). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Joern > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > > > > _________________ > > > > > > > Joern Koblitz > > > > > > > MetBase Editor > > > > > > > The MetBase Library of Meteoritics and Planetary Sciences > > > > > > > Benquestrasse 27 > > > > > > > D-28209 Bremen, Germany > > > > > > > phone: +49 421 24 100 24 > > > > > > > fax: +49 421 24 100 99 > > > > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > > > > _________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht----- > > > > > > > > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Gesendet: Montag, 15. M�rz 2004 21:20 > > > > > > > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Amgala, Tsarev and Zag > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adam wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not believe it is going to classify as a > > > > > > > > > regolith breccia but rather a polymict breccia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adam also wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought one distinction made for a regolith > > breccia is that > > > > > > > > > there are signs of crystal damage caused by the > > solar wind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Martin A. chirped: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tsarev which is brecciated but not polymict > > > > > > > > > is also altered by solar winds, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Adam, Martin, and List, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 types of inert and/or noble gases in > > some meteorites: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1) those produced by cosmic ray bombardment > (cosmogenic); > > > > > > > > (2) those resulting from radioactive decay of elements > > > > > > (radiogenic) > > > > > > > > in the meteorite; > > > > > > > > (3) those present originally (= trapped or > > primordial gases). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. (3) is what we are interested in to find out > > if Amgala, Tsarev > > > > > > > > and Zag have or have not been altered by solar > > wind particles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These gases are 4^He, 20^Ne, 36^Ar, 84^Kr, 132^Xe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are two different sources for these > > inert/noble gases: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (a) solar-type gas > > > > > > > > (b) planetary-type gas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To find out "what is what" and "which is which", > > meteoriticists > > > > > > > > consider the relative amounts and, above all, > > ratios of a number > > > > > > > > of isotopes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > J.T. Wasson proposed the following arbitrary > > > > > > > > definition of a solar gas-rich meteorite: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The 20^Ne/22^Ne ratio should be greater than 2.5 > > > > > > > > - Ne isotopic data should plot above the dashed line > > > > > > > > you find on p. 102 and on p. 111 of Wasson's and > > > > > > > > Sears' books (see: Reference) > > > > > > > > - The 4^He content should exceed 2 x 10^-5 cm^3 g^-1 > > > > > > > > - The 20^Ne / 36^Ar ratio should be greater than 0.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't have any of these isotope > > data handy for > > > > > > > > Tsarev :-( What I do have are some 3^He and 21^Ne > > data from > > > > > > > > the MPI Mainz but they are of little help at > the moment). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is an abstract paper by Honda et al. but > > they only discuss > > > > > > > > cosmogenic nuclides (see: Reference) - again of > > little help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, Tsarev is a special case and as such > > mentioned in a > > > > > > > > research article by S.K. Vogt et al. The authors > > group Tsarev > > > > > > > > with a number of other H and L chondrites that > underwent a > > > > > > > > complex "two-stage exposure history": > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t1 = 8 million years, radius ca. 200 cm > > > > > > > > t2 = ca. 0.3 million years, radius ca. 140 cm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bernd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > References: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VOGT S.K. et al. (1993) On the Bur Ghelulai H5 > > chondrite and other > > > > > > > > meteorites with complex exposure histories > > (Meteoritics 28, > > > > > > > > 1993, 71-85). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HONDA M. et al. (1992) Cosmogenic nuclides in the > > > > > > > > Tsarev chondrite (Meteoritics 27-3, 1992, 234-235). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WASSON J.T. (1974) Meteorites Classification and > > Properties > > > > > > > > (Springer-Verlag, Berlin, Heidelberg, New York, > > pp. 97-109). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SEARS D.W. (1978) The Nature and Origin of > > > > > > > > Meteorites (Adam Hilger Ltd. Bristol, pp. 110-115). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > McSWEEN H.Y. (1999) Meteorites and Their Parent Planets > > > > > > > > (Cambridge University Press, Glossary, pp. 41-44, > > > > > > 111-112, 244-248). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
