http://gmr.minsocam.org/Examples/XPolars.html
Mark
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Birdsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jeff Grossman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
Hello Jeff and thanks for your email. I think a repository of high quality photos of type specimens would be extremely useful for the entire meteorite community.
Cheers
-John
Jeff Grossman wrote:
There are several reasons for this result. Among these are:
1) Not all scientists are equally skilled at classifying meteorites.
2) Not all samples are representative of the whole. It used to be that a lab would have the entire mass to examine and could see the entire structure. With meteorites in commercial hands, they often just get a small chip. Given that lots of chondrites and achondrites are breccias, this can be a problem.
3) Some meteorites are borderline between types. Many of us try to make a decision as to which it is, and two people might come down on opposite sides of the line. If it actually matters, somebody will do careful work and publish on the subject. In most cases the error doesn't matter. Researchers all know that classification errors of this sort happen.
4) Nobody has ever standardized the way that brecciated meteorites should be described. Someday this will be fixed.
5) Some areas of meteorite classification are controversial (e.g., the use of type 7).
We already have a consortium of labs... it is all of those labs that agree to house type specimens and make them available for research whenever an important scientific question arises. We already have a network for data sharing... it includes the Meteoritical Bulletin and the numerous scientific journals that publish abstracts and peer-reviewed research. If there is a need for a repository of photos, for example, one could be set up in short order. Is there?
On the question of pairing... for most meteorites, pairing studies are of little scientific interest and not worth taking the time to do. Visual pairings are almost worthless. For the important meteorites, pairings get worked out in the scientific literature over time. This may be unsettling for some dealers, but that's the way it is.
jeff
At 11:11 AM 11/21/2004, Matt Morgan wrote:
Just to add a note... There is a fundamental scientific problem of classifying meteorites.
Try sending two pieces of the same meteorite to different labs. Chances are you will get different results. For instance, I have "L5's" that came back as "L4's" and "L6's". "Regolith" this and "Primitive" that. I heard the same situation happening for NWA 1929, either howardite OR eucrite. I understand some of it is "interpretive".
The system itself is flawed.
Ideally, we need an NWA consortium of labs to correct this and have type specimens on hand.
This SEEMS to be an easy fix, but university politics plays a huge role.
So all you scientists who study NWA's, how about a network for meteorite "data sharing"? It will make ALL our lives easier...
Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob Wesel Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 2:38 AM To: Michael Farmer; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
While I truly believe this practice is ultimately costly to the collector, truer words have never been spoken. Thanks Mike:
"Virtually every dealer including myself has been or is guilty of this, we are in the process of correcting the situation and to start people MUST immediately comply or this will just spiral downward as we see tonight."
So, for now, we make it right. We follow the rules and pay out to prove pairings. We wait longer to get to market and costs go up because repeat lab fees and repeat type specimens factor into prices per gram. I don't like it one bit but that's what we do. I will be finishing off my "likely paired" howardite as such but new specimens are already off to the lab, specimens I know are paired. While I seriously doubt the law has any holding here, the NomCom asks this of us. Bottom line, if two folks buy bread from the same baker...they're
eating the same bread. The full weight of this ruling will soon be felt by all as we bog down institutions who want to study meteorites with incessant pairings, not much grant money in pairings, not much recognition. But this is what we do...for now.
Rob Wesel ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 7:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> To clarify something that is obviously causing some problems in the > meteorite world right now, I want everyone to know that > NWA 788, 787, and NWA 482 are numbers that came from rather large or > meteorites with hundreds of pieces bought during one of my expeditions. > The Hupes and many other people have the right to those numbers. > Now, there are other numbers being widely used without proper title (as Dr > Grossman has stated publicly and with finality that people do not own > numbers, but numbers are assigned to specific meteorite specimens and must > not be used with other meteorites just because you heard or someone told > you it is the same). > Let's all please stop this practice as it is really hurting our business > and hobby. Virtually every dealer including myself has been or is guilty > of this, we are in the process of correcting the situation and to start > people MUST immediately comply or this will just spiral downward as we see > tonight. > > I perused eBay today and it is still rampant with sellers using > numbers > they seem to have drawn from a hat. So please ask you seller next time you > buy something, how they got that number, who it was assigned to and if not > them, just how they came to call it that. > Mike Farmer > > ______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >
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Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA
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