Hello Again All,
Well this is getting old.....
>>What Marvin almost always does is sell half of a specimen and keep the rest
>>intact. In this fashion, he hasn't entirely kept meteorites from being
>>cut,
>>but he sure keeps a hell of a lot of them more intact than they would
>>otherwise be, and for that I applaud him.
>So in other words he does the exact same thing every other dealer does?
Every other? No, not really. Marvin's reasons for doing this are preservation. Other dealers who do it tend to want a nice collection and do it for that reason. I'm sure that's part of Marvin's mentality, but he really does want to preserve them.
>>intact. In this fashion, he hasn't entirely kept meteorites from being
>>cut,
>>but he sure keeps a hell of a lot of them more intact than they would
>>otherwise be, and for that I applaud him.
>So in other words he does the exact same thing every other dealer does?
Every other? No, not really. Marvin's reasons for doing this are preservation. Other dealers who do it tend to want a nice collection and do it for that reason. I'm sure that's part of Marvin's mentality, but he really does want to preserve them.
>>By offering to pay for what dealers might offer them?
>no, but forming a high profile public institution who's goal is to raise a
>whole lot of money and use to to soak up meteorites.
Well, maybe I'm missing something, but that's kinda what we do to the institutions in the first place, ya know? Scary, isn't it, how they can turn the tables...you might learn how they feel.
>>No, the Acapulcoite was in Blaine Reed's room. And it was pretty fresh -
>>not weathered, as you state, the stone that you saw was.
>Maybe our deffinition of weathering isnt the same, but it wasnt an
>acapulcoite it was a h6. you might be be good at identifying metorites, but
>I'll take NAU's word over yours in this case.
>>No, the Acapulcoite was in Blaine Reed's room. And it was pretty fresh -
>>not weathered, as you state, the stone that you saw was.
>Maybe our deffinition of weathering isnt the same, but it wasnt an
>acapulcoite it was a h6. you might be be good at identifying metorites, but
>I'll take NAU's word over yours in this case.
Really? I'll stick with the classification that Blaine showed me....I've never seen a fine-grained, achondritic (completely recrystallized) H5-6. If you said H7 I might believe you, but you don't even know what was there, so don't try to pass it off as something else.
>>The Ureilites were
>>1) Being carried around one evening by a fellow...Mike Martinez? Could
>>have
>>been, but maybe I just saw him a lot during the show...sorry, but it was
>>six
>>months ago....really not sure......
>>and
>>2) Outside Mike Farmer's room in the possession of a Moroccan fellow. At
>>the very least you can ask Mike about that one - he should remember it.
>sorry, but this IS the meteorite I was talking about. it certainly wasnt
>pulled out of some common chonderite bin in tucson. It was broken up by the
>owner because he couldnt sell it whole. I first got photos of it 11/9/05 it
>was a flat, roundish stone of 9.3 kg - want me to email you a pic of it
>whole? dont think it's the same stone? ask Martin Altmann or Blaine
You might have misunderstood. The pieces outside of Mike Farmer's room were a pair that fit together. Neither of them showed any fresh breaks, as both displayed complete desert-varnished exteriors. They totalled about 3-4kg. The seller wanted, a few $ a gram - he knew what it was.
Regarding your stone of 9.3kg, I fail to see why anyone would break it up to sell it if they then proceeded to sell kg sized chunks at $.20/g prices. The seller of the Ureilite about which I'm speaking didn't know what he had in his bins.
>>And by the way, don't think I can't very easily recognize a meteorite on
>>sight. I've found 103 meteorites with a few achondrites tossed in, one of
>>which has been classified (Superior Valley 014, an Acapulcoite ;)
>I never suggested that. i only suggested that the story you were told of how
>a meteorite came to be in tucson might not be accurate, although I'm sure
>you will agree that not all meteoreites can be accurately identified by
>simple imspection. nwa 1054 doesnt look much diffrent than an H4/5 after all
>and it's a winonaite.
>>And by the way, don't think I can't very easily recognize a meteorite on
>>sight. I've found 103 meteorites with a few achondrites tossed in, one of
>>which has been classified (Superior Valley 014, an Acapulcoite ;)
>I never suggested that. i only suggested that the story you were told of how
>a meteorite came to be in tucson might not be accurate, although I'm sure
>you will agree that not all meteoreites can be accurately identified by
>simple imspection. nwa 1054 doesnt look much diffrent than an H4/5 after all
>and it's a winonaite.
Your point? This was a metamorphosed Acapulcoite/Lodranite. Not an H5. I may not be an expert at identifying thin sections, but even the fellas up at UCLA value my opinion when it comes to macro surfaces and exteriors.
>>A) Last I saw, neither were you. At least I've spoken with a director in
>>depth about these issues, and have had a short word now with the other
>>director as well.
>>B) They state that a portion of meteorites need to be conserved for future
>>studies, yes. And the $10 mil probably wouldn't be available for spending
>>if it's to be an endowment...sorry to burst your bubble there, but I think
>>it would be legally protected.
>you are speaking about 'probablies' and in definate terms about what the
>center WONT do - even though you are in no position of authority to do so.
>i'm more concerned about that the center MIGHT do. see the diffrence?
So you're probably not a director? Um, maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't think you are.
And secondly, all you're doing is ranting theories about how Marvin Killgore, a meteorite collector, is going to drive meteorite prices for collectors through the roof.
I've spoken to him and heard what he plans. That's not probability my friend, that's solid information. If you chose not to accept it, again, I don't see why I'm even writing this.
>>If you think
>>that simply stating my opinion is badmouthing people, go right ahead an
>>insult me.
>you seemed to go beyond that and imply that the people who liked collecting
>bessy specs were somehow 'wrong' because they didnt subscribe to the same
>philosophy as you. at least that was the impression you left me with, and by
>another email i recived at least 1 more person.
Odd, isn't it - I've had three emails of support...any chance I can name some names fellas? It would give me a bit of leverage...
>>I know the intentions of the directors, and personally, I can guarantee you
>>that the sort of wanton buying of everything in sight that you so fear
>>won't
>>occur. If that's not good enough for you, I see no reason to continue this
>>argument, because you don't believe what I'm saying in the first place.
>unfortunatly Jason, you cant guarantee anything - you arent int he position
>to do so - no matter what anyone has told you.
Well, I can if Marvin wasn't lying to me...but you're beyond anything like that. You're not even using probability - you've resorted to theorizing!
>>I know the intentions of the directors, and personally, I can guarantee you
>>that the sort of wanton buying of everything in sight that you so fear
>>won't
>>occur. If that's not good enough for you, I see no reason to continue this
>>argument, because you don't believe what I'm saying in the first place.
>unfortunatly Jason, you cant guarantee anything - you arent int he position
>to do so - no matter what anyone has told you.
Well, I can if Marvin wasn't lying to me...but you're beyond anything like that. You're not even using probability - you've resorted to theorizing!
I'm telling you exactly what Marvin told me. You can chose listen to it or you can ignore it. Again, no one's going to make you listen, but they're going to get pretty fed up with your theories that have no evidence to back them up.
"They'll be able to do this, they'll be able to do that." It's all crap. Bill Gates, along with countless other obscenely rich people, could get into meteorites and buy up every collection on the planet without making a dent in their pocketbooks. You don't go ranting about them, do you? And this person's already said that he'd never do any of the things you're suggesting!
Go waste your own time. I've lost all interest in this thread...or at least conversing about this topic on your "pseudo-intellectual" (to quote one of my email supporters) terms.
I suggest you speak to Marvin, as you don't seem to care about what I'm saying...but then again, I'm telling you what he told me, so maybe you should just stew about this on your own time, and stop wasting other peoples.'
Jason Utas
On 7/15/06, stan . <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What Marvin almost always does is sell half of a specimen and keep the rest
>intact. In this fashion, he hasn't entirely kept meteorites from being
>cut,
>but he sure keeps a hell of a lot of them more intact than they would
>otherwise be, and for that I applaud him.
So in other words he does the exact same thing every other dealer does?
>By offering to pay for what dealers might offer them?
no, but forming a high profile public institution who's goal is to raise a
whole lot of money and use to to soak up meteorites.
>No, the Acapulcoite was in Blaine Reed's room. And it was pretty fresh -
>not weathered, as you state, the stone that you saw was.
Maybe our deffinition of weathering isnt the same, but it wasnt an
acapulcoite it was a h6. you might be be good at identifying metorites, but
I'll take NAU's word over yours in this case.
>The Ureilites were
>1) Being carried around one evening by a fellow...Mike Martinez? Could
>have
>been, but maybe I just saw him a lot during the show...sorry, but it was
>six
>months ago....really not sure......
>and
>2) Outside Mike Farmer's room in the possession of a Moroccan fellow. At
>the very least you can ask Mike about that one - he should remember it.
sorry, but this IS the meteorite I was talking about. it certainly wasnt
pulled out of some common chonderite bin in tucson. It was broken up by the
owner because he couldnt sell it whole. I first got photos of it 11/9/05 it
was a flat, roundish stone of 9.3 kg - want me to email you a pic of it
whole? dont think it's the same stone? ask Martin Altmann or Blaine
>And by the way, don't think I can't very easily recognize a meteorite on
>sight. I've found 103 meteorites with a few achondrites tossed in, one of
>which has been classified (Superior Valley 014, an Acapulcoite ;)
I never suggested that. i only suggested that the story you were told of how
a meteorite came to be in tucson might not be accurate, although I'm sure
you will agree that not all meteoreites can be accurately identified by
simple imspection. nwa 1054 doesnt look much diffrent than an H4/5 after all
and it's a winonaite.
>A) Last I saw, neither were you. At least I've spoken with a director in
>depth about these issues, and have had a short word now with the other
>director as well.
>B) They state that a portion of meteorites need to be conserved for future
>studies, yes. And the $10 mil probably wouldn't be available for spending
>if it's to be an endowment...sorry to burst your bubble there, but I think
>it would be legally protected.
you are speaking about 'probablies' and in definate terms about what the
center WONT do - even though you are in no position of authority to do so.
i'm more concerned about that the center MIGHT do. see the diffrence?
>If you think
>that simply stating my opinion is badmouthing people, go right ahead an
>insult me.
you seemed to go beyond that and imply that the people who liked collecting
bessy specs were somehow 'wrong' because they didnt subscribe to the same
philosophy as you. at least that was the impression you left me with, and by
another email i recived at least 1 more person.
>I know the intentions of the directors, and personally, I can guarantee you
>that the sort of wanton buying of everything in sight that you so fear
>won't
>occur. If that's not good enough for you, I see no reason to continue this
>argument, because you don't believe what I'm saying in the first place.
unfortunatly Jason, you cant guarantee anything - you arent int he position
to do so - no matter what anyone has told you.
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