It is the same old argument that has STAINED this list for the 6+ years I
have been on it. The guy in chicago who needs no intro. Between spamming
with sales offers over and over, mindless blathering for trades,
unscrupulous transactions and his ever popular "anything you can do I can do
better" bragging about his collection.
Sooner or later you are all going to just quit giving this guy his 15 minute
of fame.
He is notorious, why is anyone still listening to him or doing business with
him and why is he once again getting his 15 minutes of fame?
Sooner or later you all will learn that the Bozo the Clown show is based in
Chicago to stay clear of BOZO in Chicago and we will all be better off.
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Freeman mjwy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Dave Carothers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "meteorite list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] An open message to all list members
Dear Dave, List;
It was the idealism of the very infant IMCA to strive to get it's
members (and the entire meteorite community) to offer a higher level of
ethics....let me repeat that....It was the ideal of the infant IMCA to
strive to get it's members to offer a higher level of ethics....
That being said, is Ssteve an IMCA member, and why would anyone buy from
anyone who is not a member?
This was the idealism set to task a number of years ago. There will
always be losers selling meteorites. When the riff-raff and wanta-be's
become too frequent, maybe the IMCA seal will mean a great more to
individuals than it does now. If you aren't an IMCA member, why not,
and if you are, do you support only IMCA member dealers or do you
support these riffraff sellers that continually (and I am talking about
a number of years of phony sales tactics in this case) offer suspect
auctions and bogus claims? The market she is in ruin and it is the
repeat offenders that continue foreword and get encouragement from the
uninformed or those that choose to associate with these suspect
individuals.
Ssteve's issues have been an issue for all meteorite collectors every
since he came to the meteorite list and became a meteorite dealer.
Leopards seldom loose their spots regardless of their seemingly sincere
claims.
I am sure there are a couple others that most knowledgeable collectors
stay away from as well. To a degree, we cannot protect dumb collectors
from making bad choices with very suspect individuals. I rather to
think we all should support better quality dealers and let less
desirable individuals become extinct. The story of
He-Who's-Name-We-Do-Not-Mention is a prime example of a united meteorite
community. Petty crooks don't seem to rate this type of excommunication
these days it would seem.
Sincerely,
Dave F.
IMCA #3864 since the beginning
Dave Carothers wrote:
To all list members,
I’m sure most of you have seen my emails relating to the misrepresentations
and falsehoods perpetrated by Steve (Chicago) Arnold in his ads and posts.
First of all, let me apologize to the list membership for making these
emails public and in effect, loading up your mailboxes. I believe there is
good reason, however, for making these emails public. It is for that
reason
I felt I should explain some of the background issues and provide my
rationale below.
Everyone on this list has invested a lot of time, effort, and most
importantly, money in their respective meteorite collections. I personally
take great umbrage at anyone who would jeopardize my collection, either
directly or indirectly, by casting ANY doubt on ANY facet or aspect of
collecting meteorites. The process of buying and selling meteorites and
the
specimens themselves ALL have to be genuine and above reproach at ALL times
We also have a number of list members who make their living by selling
meteorites. I won’t even begin to speak for them, but I’ve seen several of
these folks get down and dirty at any potential threat to their
livelihood….
and rightfully so.
My issue with Steve (Chicago) Arnold is that he just doesn’t care what he
puts in his ads. In July, when I first caught his ads containing
misrepresentations and falsehoods, he told me:
“WHAT IS IT TO YOU?? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.”
I ask you all…. What kind of reply is that? What does that tell you about
Steve (Chicago) Arnold’s integrity and morals?
Today, I noticed a misrepresentation on one of his eBay sales and mentioned
it on the list (as I previously promised I would --- see below). Again, I
received these rather disturbing comments from Steve.
“I REALLY WISH YOU WOULD STOP HARRASING ME ABOUT THIS PETTY BULL****.”
[replaced with * so as to not offend]
“I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE CONTINOUSLY HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON.”
“IT IS NOT YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE TO POLICE ME OR EBAY,OR ANYONE ELSE IN THIS
WORLD EXCEPT YOURSELF.ENOUGH OF THIS BULL****.” [replaced with * so as to
not offend]
I’m sorry, but if anyone thinks that perpetrating misrepresentations and
falsehoods when selling meteorites is “PETTY BULL****” or that calling it
to
his attention is “HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON” then WE as a community have
REAL problems. This poor pathetic act of his is a scam. I invite all list
members to go back to the archives and look at Steve’s MO. If anyone
catches him doing something he shouldn’t, he immediate screams that he is
being harassed.
OK, so why am I getting involved in this? I see Steve (Chicago) Arnold as
a
direct threat to this great hobby (and in some cases, livelihood) of ours
and also more specifically to the time, effort, and money I’ve invested in
my collection. As I told Steve several weeks ago:
“You're a dangerous person, Steve. You're a danger to any and ALL
legitimate dealers, sellers, and collectors of meteorites. You're like the
auto industry back 40-50 years ago. They used to misrepresent and make
false claims about the safety of their vehicles and then, along came a man
named Nader.
I gave you fair warning in two previous emails that I was 1) going to make
it my business "MAKING SURE UNSUSPECTING POTENTIAL BUYERS ARE AWARE OF YOUR
LIES" and 2) "any recurrence will again be brought out in a public forum".
You now have my undivided attention. I've going to be your own personal
Ralph Nader. Every time you post a misleading/untruthful/fraudulent ad,
I'm
going to expose it... publicly. You're a loose canon on deck and someone
needs to expose you for what you are.”
I told Steve today, that he could stop my posts if he would just stop the
misrepresentations and falsehoods.
Some of you might be thinking that I’m just picking on Steve. Well, in all
honesty, I’ve gone after several other sellers on eBay who have done the
same thing (and I'll continue to do so). The responses I got back from
them
was typically something like… Oh, I’m sorry. I made a mistake and will
correct it immediately. Watching these individuals over time and you don’t
see a recurrence. In other words, it was a one-time, honest mistake.
Steve
(Chicago) Arnold has my undivided attention because he does this repeatedly
and responds with comments like “WHAT IS IT TO YOU?? MIND YOUR OWN
BUSINESS.”
Again, I apologize to all list members for these emails. I’m hoping the
publicity and peer pressure will convince Steve (Chicago) Arnold develop a
different set of morals.
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