Adam,
I included the angrite auction because i had some other ebay stuff going up
and the material was ready AND as i specifically said in my auction i should
have the provisonal number in a few days - and i did. if you dont like that
way of doing listing ebay auctions thats fine but it gives you and your
brother no grounds of accusing me of self pairing and playing scientist. i
do not see how it can be construed as misleading in the slightest - i made
full disclosure on the status of my stone to the best of my ability.
Why did I include your and Boswell's name? because i belive the material to
be paired based upon what my sources have told me. instead of telling the
collecting public that this is a new angrite with a TKW of only 270g i made
every effort to provide as much information as i can about the material -
even though the fact that the total cumulative known weight and material
being avalible from other sources might make my material less valuble.
I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm shown to be wrong - unlike you. I remeber when
you called me a liar and said you would sue me for posting a pic I took of
NWA 904 - saying that the material I had obviously WASNT 904 - I never did
get an appology from you even after i posted a photo of the hupe specimin ID
card and links to the ebay auction where i bought it directly from you. Now
if I'm wrong about Aaronson being the source for your material that is fine
and I'll admit it. He WAS the source for Boswell's material and that is
paired with 2999 per the metbul webpage.
If you still think NAU was wrong to pair 1839 and 3133 i'd love to see the
data that supports this position. I'm a type collector so it would only mean
i have two unique parent bodies instead of one. please provide the data you
mentioned at your earliest convinience.
Stan,
The complaints have been pouring in about your supposed pairing for days,
every since your action started. I see you added a provisional number at
the very bottom of your auction after the damage was already done. Why not
wait for a formal report in order to release this item if it is due out
shortly? This confuses collectors and is misleading. Why is that you
mention our last name in your auctions?, this is a poor business practice
to say the least. Greg went out to Morocco and got NWA 2999 himself, not
from Adam Aaronson so get your story straight. You should not comment on
things you know nothing about. Greg, does not get anything from the
Aaronson's so you may want to retract this statement in your auction and
here on the List. Why is it so difficult to admit you are totally wrong in
this case and the case of NWA 1839?
Adam
----- Original Message ----- From: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Adam,
Are you and your brother blind? here it is spelled out in crayon for you -
i have highligted the portion of my auction that you both have claimed
dont exist in red - please scroll down all the way and READ the entire
description:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5415/adamandgregkp9.jpg
Still think I'm the one jumping the gun?
I personally am at a loss as to why you would say that this material
doesnt look like 2999 unless my photography just plain sucks (i'll admit
to this possibility) - every piece i have looks EXACTLY like photos you
have posted. Blaine Reed thinks that this stone looks EXACTLY like your
material. Adam Aaronson (the original source for ALL of this material
AFIK) thinks this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. At least one
scientist I have spoken with thinks that this material looks EXACTLY like
your material.
on the subject of nwa 3133/1839 - you had said that the reason for your
belief that the stones were not paired was based upon new isotopse
analysis (other than oxygen) do you have any actual data that you can
share that will back up your claim? I'd be most interested in it.
FWIW claims about pairings on this stone/2999 and on 1839/3133 were not my
own - In both cases I have put forth all the avalible information I have
on the material as well as citing the source of the claim in question.
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Stan,
Nowhere in your auction did you say that a provisional number was
assigned. It is simple, use your own NWA numbers from now on whether they
are provisional or not. It is dangerous to make pairing statements, let
the scientists do their job in this regard and make it formal. You made
pairing statements in the past that were found to be in error (NWA
1839/3133) and this new item looks nothing like any piece of NWA 2999 I
have seen so I can understand Greg's concern. Greg went through the
trouble of removing a type sample from each of the 12 stones just to make
sure what he is offering is the real deal. I think you owe him an apology
for jumping the gun on this one.
Adam
----- Original Message ----- From: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Greg
why dont you bother to read the whole gosh darned ebay listing before
you accuse me of self pairing and asking me if i'm a scientist - to
avoid making yourself look like a fool who is just trying to protect his
market share without giving a rat's behind about the collectors.
My ebay ad specifically states that NAU has ALREADY determined this
material to be an angrite - and that the material is (provisional) NWA
2934. All that Dr. Bunch was waiting on before making this offical is
the remainder of the type specimin deposit since Adam Aaronson's sample
(the same source for Boswell's material and yours as well AFIK) was
bellow the 20g requirement. the remainder of this mass he should have by
next week the postal services willing.
Now i guess you could argue that Dr. Bunch might not know what he is
doing and i shouldnt offer the material till the classification is voted
on by the nomcom - but since Dr. Bunch co-authored the 'case for
mercury' paper AND took part in the classification of nwa 2999 I
personally think his word on the matter is good enough for me. I fully
disclosed that the number is provisional and that the assumption of
pairing was based upon information from my source. I dont see what kind
of (legitimate) complaint you might have.
I have maybe another 5g of this material that is 'extra' to my
collection from opening up the cut face on the stone i bought and
removing material to finialize the type specimin donation. No need to
worry about my flooding the market greg - after that 5g you can go back
to selling the stuff for as much money as you can get.
now why dont YOU do the right thing and apologize to the list for this
BS.
From: "Greg Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:02 -0400
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FILETIME=[C8953E70:01C6F003]
Dear Stan and List Members,
Stan wrote:
"...an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows off translucent
augite..."
Stan, this looks like very bad business ethics in a few ways,
especially in undermining collector confidence in what YOU sell. Your
eBay title reads, "new NWA angrite meteorite possible NWA 2999/3164
pairs". This appears to be more self-pairing, are you a scientist? What
is YOUR NWA number that was assigned to this material which actually
looks like your ureilite a while back you claimed as "pallasite-like"
(now that phrase sounds familiar!!).
When I discovered NWA 2999 (the real McCoy!), there were only 12
complete stones in which I cut every single one of them and provided
material to have thin sections made to determine they were all paired,
which they were. Here is a link to a photo of those twelve OFFICIAL NWA
2999 stones: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2999/nwa2999a.jpg (notice how
they are all flat on bottom where I cut a piece off for thin sections).
There were however, a couple additional "potential angrite" stones that
proved not to be angrite material so you need to have the scientists do
their job and get an officially assigned NWA number for your material,
whatever it may be. This needs to be done with all suspected
meteorites, especially as rare and important as an angrite! In your
eBay ad you state the material was purchased for you from someone at
the Denver Show, most likely a Moroccan who made the pairing is my
guess and we know what happens when you go strictly by their word, or
even anyone else such as yourself in this case.
Do the right thing, get it analyzed by a lab and have an NWA number
assigned, the meteorite community deserves this of ALL of this type of
thing. I see the coat-tailing happening again, not just with you, but
with other self-made "scientists" who do not do the right thing.
Best regards,
Greg
====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IMCA 3163
====================
----- Original Message ----- From: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
hello all....
i have a handfull of ebay auctions running right now that end in about
2 days. closing starting 19:00 PDT on monday the 16th. included in
this grouping are some more great seymchans, a micro of nwa 2737 the
chassignite, a nice shock veined shergotitte endcut, a new low TKW
acapulcoite that is unpaired with the other ACAP material floating
around recently, an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows
off translucent augite, an awsome piece of nwa 801 CR2, and a few more
than i'm probably not remembering to mention.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0?
TIA!
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