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Today's Topics:
1. Re: What the hell does Mars have to do with the Holocene
Start Impacts? (Michael Farmer)
2. Monday morning, and back into the muck (E.P. Grondine)
3. Russian Language Scale Cubes (Paul)
4. Re: Russian Language Scale Cubes (Sergey Vasiliev)
5. Re: Russian Language Scale Cubes (Sergey Vasiliev)
6. Re: Russian Language Scale Cubes (Sergey Vasiliev)
7. Re: Monday morning, and back into the muck (Bill)
8. Re: Searching for Earthites on the Moon (Rob McCafferty)
9. Exploding Lunar Eclipse (Ron Baalke)
10. Re: Searching for Earthites on the Moon (Sterling K. Webb)
11. Re: Russian Language Scale Cubes (Darren Garrison)
12. Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - August 28, 2007
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
13. Ancient bacteria could point to life on Mars (Sterling K. Webb)
14. Re: Ancient bacteria could point to life on Mars (mark ford)
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From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:07:03 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What the hell does Mars have to do with the
Holocene Start Impacts?
Message: 1
I don't think anyone cares at this point. This thread
has outlived its informative stage.
Michael Farmer
--- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all -
>
> Well, we've reached a new level of absurdity here,
> as
> Paul wrote:
>
> "For example, as summarized in Baker and Nummedal
> (1978) and seen in innumerable images of Mars,
> cataclysmic floods of the type envisioned by Mr.
> Grondine, produce very distinct landforms."
>
> As Paul well knows, CO2 is the more likely transport
> mechanism for those deposits on Mars. The phase
> state
> laws for water prevent it from acting as Paul states
> in the near vacuum of Mars' "atmosphere".
>
> Perhaps Paul's comment here explains what has been
> going on: specifically, Paul's comments reflect the
> intensity of the Mars Nuts desire to hoodwink us
> into
> wasting money on an insane plan to launch large
> nuclear reactors over Florida for manned flight to
> Mars.
>
> Perhaps its simply paranoia, but I have extreme
> doubts
> if Paul's coming up with these lengthy comments
> which
> he sends us all by himself.
>
> EP
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
>
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From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: [meteorite-list] Monday morning, and back into the muck
Message: 2
Hi all -
Christ, do I get awarded a doctorate after all of this
is done? Or is their a large cash prize involved if I
"win" this?
I wrote:
"Back now to the Fairbank muck deposit:
I WAS WRONG. I MADE A MISTAKE. AN ERROR.
Clearly, the deposits which Hibbens observed
at Fairbanks came from the sudden ice melt
following this impact event:"
And Paul observed:
"This is not the impact generated mega-tsunami, which
here-to fore you have been arguing happened and which
is what I thought the discussion was all about. I find
it revealing that once your tsunami hypothesis for the
origin of specific beds described by Hibben (1943) has
been demolished, you invents a new and contradictory
explanation."
Well, as it is very difficult to try to figure out
exactly what occurred when some 12,000 years ago, I
reserve my right to change my opinion again as new
data comes in. The First People's holocene start
accounts that I read had no large fire, but then I've
been told by other researchers that there are other
accounts which do.
That said, the traditions that I did read all included
the description of a COMET. And as it was very
difficult to try to understand exactly what the
ancestors were trying to tell us, I kept my commentary
very distinct from the passing on of their traditions.
"If this is what Mr. Grondine is proposing, then it is
dishonest for Mr. Grondine to claim that Hibben (1943)
supports his point of view"
What Hibben proposed was that a supervolcanic
explosion had killed the mega-fuana. And I set out
Hibben's hypothesis in my book "Man and Impact in the
Americas", and stated why I disagreed with it. There
is nothing "dishonest" about that. That's unlike some
people, who will intentionally misquote my own words
back to me, and quite fearlessly add insults to their
comments.
"as Hibben (1943) clearly stated:
""The deposits known as muck may be definitely
described, in the opinion of the writer, as loess
material. All characteristics seem to indicate a
wind-borne origin from comparatively local
sources, as the material resembles local bedrock.
The outwash plains of the local glaciations are
likely points of origin for this material.""
"Hibben (1943) clearly states above that he interprets
the bulk of the Alaskan "muck" being likely composed
of wind-blown silt."
"It is just specific layers, which Hibben (1943)
described as being containing the jumbled remains of
plants and animals that he argued as being the result
of a catastrophe."
"Even your new hypothesis cannot explain the physical
characteristics of the Alaskan muck. Cataclysmic
floods of any type simply do not deposit thick
sequences of silty sediments."
Well, floods may not deposit "thick sequences of silty
sediments", but impact mega-tsunami do, as can be seen
at La Venta, where they have 20 feet of "marine
sediment".
Bottom line, Paul, I've never been to Alaska, and I
thought that the reason that the hydraulic mining
operation was going on was to recover gold from
gravels that had been washed down.
EP
____________________________________________________________________________________
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From: Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Message: 3
Has anyone ever produced any foreign language
scale cubes? I am wondering if any scale cubes
using Russian characters have been made? Yours,
Paul
H.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo!
Small Business gives you all the tools to get
online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
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From: "Sergey Vasiliev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
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To: <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:49:29 +0200
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Message: 4
Hi Paul,
It will be complicated in Cyrillic because of double letters.
W (west) - Cyrillic B (vostok)
T (top) - Cyrillic B (verh)
;-)))
Regards,
Sergey
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Has anyone ever produced any foreign language scale cubes?
I am wondering if any scale cubes using Russian characters
have been made?
Yours,
Paul H.
____________________________________________________________________________
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From: "Sergey Vasiliev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:51:39 +0200
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Message: 5
Upps,
E (east) - Cyrillic B (vostok)
Forgetting my own language :-(
Sergey
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Has anyone ever produced any foreign language scale cubes?
I am wondering if any scale cubes using Russian characters
have been made?
Yours,
Paul H.
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all
the tools to get online.
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From: "Sergey Vasiliev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:08:41 +0200
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Message: 6
To make the Cyrillic cube more clear:
http://sv-meteorites.jodoshared.com/Gallery/cube.jpg
Regards,
Sergey
-----------------------------------------
Sergey Vasiliev
U Dalnice 839,
Prague 5, 15500
Czech Republic
------------------------------------------
http://www.sv-meteorites.com
http://impactites.net
http://systematic-mineralogy.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Has anyone ever produced any foreign language scale cubes?
I am wondering if any scale cubes using Russian characters
have been made?
Yours,
Paul H.
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all
the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
______________________________________________
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From: Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: [email protected]
To: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:02:57 -0800
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Monday morning, and back into the muck
Message: 7
It was interesting in the beginning. Now it's
become an epic of spam. With all respect,
although I'm beginning to wonder if any is due...
Bill
Zero books written, nothing for sale.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Monday morning, and back into the muck
>
> Hi all -
>
> Christ, do I get awarded a doctorate after all of this
> is done? Or is their a large cash prize involved if I
> "win" this?
>
> I wrote:
>
> "Back now to the Fairbank muck deposit:
> I WAS WRONG. I MADE A MISTAKE. AN ERROR.
>
> Clearly, the deposits which Hibbens observed
> at Fairbanks came from the sudden ice melt
> following this impact event:"
>
> And Paul observed:
> "This is not the impact generated mega-tsunami, which
> here-to fore you have been arguing happened and which
> is what I thought the discussion was all about. I find
> it revealing that once your tsunami hypothesis for the
> origin of specific beds described by Hibben (1943) has
> been demolished, you invents a new and contradictory
> explanation."
>
> Well, as it is very difficult to try to figure out
> exactly what occurred when some 12,000 years ago, I
> reserve my right to change my opinion again as new
> data comes in. The First People's holocene start
> accounts that I read had no large fire, but then I've
> been told by other researchers that there are other
> accounts which do.
>
> That said, the traditions that I did read all included
> the description of a COMET. And as it was very
> difficult to try to understand exactly what the
> ancestors were trying to tell us, I kept my commentary
> very distinct from the passing on of their traditions.
>
> "If this is what Mr. Grondine is proposing, then it is
>
> dishonest for Mr. Grondine to claim that Hibben (1943)
> supports his point of view"
>
> What Hibben proposed was that a supervolcanic
> explosion had killed the mega-fuana. And I set out
> Hibben's hypothesis in my book "Man and Impact in the
> Americas", and stated why I disagreed with it. There
> is nothing "dishonest" about that. That's unlike some
> people, who will intentionally misquote my own words
> back to me, and quite fearlessly add insults to their
> comments.
>
> "as Hibben (1943) clearly stated:
>
> ""The deposits known as muck may be definitely
> described, in the opinion of the writer, as loess
> material. All characteristics seem to indicate a
> wind-borne origin from comparatively local
> sources, as the material resembles local bedrock.
> The outwash plains of the local glaciations are
> likely points of origin for this material.""
>
> "Hibben (1943) clearly states above that he interprets
> the bulk of the Alaskan "muck" being likely composed
> of wind-blown silt."
>
> "It is just specific layers, which Hibben (1943)
> described as being containing the jumbled remains of
> plants and animals that he argued as being the result
> of a catastrophe."
>
> "Even your new hypothesis cannot explain the physical
> characteristics of the Alaskan muck. Cataclysmic
> floods of any type simply do not deposit thick
> sequences of silty sediments."
>
> Well, floods may not deposit "thick sequences of silty
> sediments", but impact mega-tsunami do, as can be seen
> at La Venta, where they have 20 feet of "marine
> sediment".
>
> Bottom line, Paul, I've never been to Alaska, and I
> thought that the reason that the hydraulic mining
> operation was going on was to recover gold from
> gravels that had been washed down.
>
> EP
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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From: Rob McCafferty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Searching for Earthites on the Moon
Message: 8
More than a little ambitious if you ask me.
This is assuming that any evidence isn't vapourised by
the impact of such earthites hitting at a minimum of
2.?km/s and also assuming that such unmolested
evidence is present wherever they intend to drill for
it.
They'd be better off waiting until the pig migration
season and asking one for it's opinion as it flies
past.
--- Darren Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/26/scimeteror12.xml
>
> Moon meteorites may hold clue to life on Earth
> By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent, Sunday
> Telegraph
> Last Updated: 12:01am BST 26/08/2007
>
> Scientists are planning a mission to drill beneath
> the Moon's surface for buried
> meteorites that may hold clues to how life began on
> Earth.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
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From: Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected] (Meteorite Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:50:17 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding Lunar Eclipse
Message: 9
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/27aug_explodingeclipse.htm
Exploding Lunar Eclipse
NASA Science News
August 27, 2007
August 27, 2007: Most people appreciate lunar eclipses for their silent
midnight beauty. NASA astronomer Bill Cooke is different: he loves the
explosions.
On Tuesday morning, Aug. 28th, Earth's shadow will settle across the
Moon for a 90-minute total eclipse: full story
<http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/03aug_dreamyeclipse.htm>. In
the midst of the lunar darkness, Cooke hopes to record some flashes of
light--explosions caused by meteoroids crashing into the Moon and
blasting themselves to smithereens.
"The eclipse is a great time to look," says Cooke, who heads up NASA's
Meteoroid Environment Office (MEO) at the Marshall Space Flight Center.
The entire face of the Moon will be in shadow for more than two hours,
offering more than 7 million sq. miles of dark terrain as target for
incoming meteoroids.
Lunar explosions are nothing new. Cooke's team has been monitoring the
Moon since late 2005 and they've recorded 62 impacts so far. "Meteoroids
that hit Earth disintegrate in the atmosphere, producing a harmless
streak of light. But the Moon has no atmosphere, so 'lunar meteors'
plunge into the ground," he says. Typical strikes release as much energy
as 100 kg of TNT, gouging craters several meters wide and producing
bursts of light bright enough to be seen 240,000 miles away on Earth
through ordinary backyard telescopes.
"About half of the impacts we see come from regular meteor showers like
the Perseids and Leonids," says MEO team-member Danielle Moser. "The
other half are 'sporadic' meteors associated with no particular asteroid
or comet."
The MEO observatory is located on the grounds of the Marshall Space
Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, and consists of two 14-inch
telescopes equipped with sensitive low-light video cameras. Moser and
colleague Victoria Coffey will be on duty Tuesday morning.
During the eclipse, they hope to catch an elusive variety of meteor
called Helions.
"Helion meteoroids come from the direction of the sun," Cooke says, "and
that makes them very difficult to observe." They streak across the sky
most often around local noon when the sun's glare is too intense for
meteor watching.
Wait a minute. Meteors from the sun? "The sun itself is not the source,"
he explains. "We believe Helion meteoroids come from ancient sungrazing
comets that laid down trails of dusty debris in the vicinity of the sun."
No one can be certain, however, because Helion meteoroids are so devilishly
difficult to study. Astronomers see them only in small numbers briefly
before dawn or after sunset. Attempts to study Helions via radar during
the day have been foiled, to a degree, by terrestrial radio interference
and natural radio bursts from the sun - both of which can drown out
meteoroid "pings."
Enter the eclipse.
During the eclipse, the Man in the Moon (the face we see from Earth)
will be turned squarely toward the sunâ"perfect geometry for
intercepting Helion meteoroids," says Moser. "And with Earth's shadow
providing some darkness, we should be able to see any explosions quite
clearly."
"Watching Helion meteoroids hit the Moon and studying the flashes will
tell us more about their size, velocity and penetration," she adds.
That, in turn, will further the MEO's goal of estimating meteoroid
hazards to spacecraft and future Moon-walking astronauts.
No one has ever seen a lunar impact during an eclipse, "but there's a
first time for everything," Cooke says. Stay tuned to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for
results.
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Rob McCafferty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[email protected]>
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:09:44 -0500
Reply-To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Searching for Earthites on the Moon
Message: 10
Hi, Rob, Darren,
Lunar escape velocity is 2368 m/s, and each gram that
"falls" to the Moon's surface carries a minimum kinetic
energy of 2803.7 joules or 2.8 x 10^8 ergs.
The energy required to melt (from room termperature)
1 gram of Earth rock is about 1.2 x 10^10 ergs. Vaporizing
it takes more energy still. The energy required to crush it
to a fine powder (bursting strength) is about 1/10 that amount.
So an Earth rock appears to be 43 times stronger than
is necessary to survive the impact "unpowdered." However,
that is a very small margin of safety when you consider
that the "Earth rock" will have just been recently subjected
to a much bigger impact knocking it off the Earth and will
have been considerably weakened by that experience!
On the other hand, "conventional" meteorites, structurally
weak to begin with, are approaching the Earth-Moon system
are 5,000 m/s to 15,000 m/s in their orbits. They will strike
with 100 to 500 times more energy than the minimum "fall"
energy.
The "biggest" meteorite ever found on the Moon, HADLEY
RILLE, is a 1 millimeter fragment of EH chondrite. Virtually all
"conventional" meteorites will impact with more than enough
energy to powder them (or worse). HADLEY RILLE was just
lucky... and tough.
> pig migration season... asking one for it's opinion
> as it flies past...
Not "scientific" enough.
Possibly we could observe the flight of the pigs and
from the number of pigs shot down by meteorites, deduce
the lunar meteorite influx to see if this project is worthwhile?
With a suitably sensitive 10,000 meter telescope in orbit,
we could probably even deduce the kinetic energy of each
meteorite by observing the damage to the pig in detail.
[Insert artist's rendition of perforated pig falling into
death spiral with lots of red splatter.]
Sterling K. Webb
---------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob McCafferty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Searching for Earthites on the Moon
More than a little ambitious if you ask me.
This is assuming that any evidence isn't vapourised by
the impact of such earthites hitting at a minimum of
2.?km/s and also assuming that such unmolested
evidence is present wherever they intend to drill for
it.
They'd be better off waiting until the pig migration
season and asking one for it's opinion as it flies
past.
--- Darren Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/26/scimeteror12.xml
>
> Moon meteorites may hold clue to life on Earth
> By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent, Sunday
> Telegraph
> Last Updated: 12:01am BST 26/08/2007
>
> Scientists are planning a mission to drill beneath
> the Moon's surface for buried
> meteorites that may hold clues to how life began on
> Earth.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
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From: Darren Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:43:55 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian Language Scale Cubes
Message: 11
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:49:29 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi Paul,
>
>It will be complicated in Cyrillic because of double letters.
>
>W (west) - Cyrillic B (vostok)
>T (top) - Cyrillic B (verh)
>
You could always print (or cut) the whole words:
http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/scale_cubes_russian.jpg
(translations via Babelfish, any mistakes are purely theirs) :-)
Or I like these:
http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/scale_cubes_japanese.jpg
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To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:15:18 EDT
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Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space
Picture of the Day - August 28, 2007
Message: 12
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/August_28_2007.html
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From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: "Meteorite List" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:44:21 -0500
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Subject: [meteorite-list] Ancient bacteria could point to life on Mars
Message: 13
Hi, All,
With the Phoenix Lander headed for Martian
permafrost territory, this is suddenly more interesting.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2733009920070827?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true
Ancient bacteria could point to life on Mars: Study
LONDON (Reuters) - Ancient bacteria are able
to survive nearly half a million years in harsh,
frozen conditions, researchers said on Monday
in a study that adds to arguments that permafrost
environments on Mars could harbor life.
The findings also represent the oldest independently
authenticated DNA to date obtained from living
cells and could offer clues to better understand
ageing, said Eske Willerslev, a researcher at the
University of Copenhagen who led the study.
"When it can live half a million years on Earth it
makes it very promising it could survive on Mars
for a very long time," Willerslev said. "Permafrost
would be an excellent place to look for life on Mars."
The international team, which also included researchers
from the United States, Canada, Russia and Sweden,
tested the microbes living up to 10 meters deep in
permafrost collected from Northern Canada, the
Yukon, Siberia and Antarctica.
When a cell dies, its DNA fragments into pieces but
the samples the researchers studied were all very long
strands -- evidence the cells were able to continuously
repair genetic material and remain alive, said Willerslev,
whose findings were published in the Proceedings of
the Academy of Sciences.
"These cells are active cells repairing DNA to deal
with continuous degradation of the genomes, which
is the genetic material that is key to life," he said in
a telephone interview. "It is the same thing with humans."
The scientists do not yet know the mechanism driving
the continuous repair but Willerslev said the cells survived
by eating nutrients like nitrogen and phosphate lodged
in the permafrost.
This is interesting because the temperature on Mars is
much colder with more stable temperatures, representing
an even better environment to sustain this kind of life, he
added.
While most scientists think our neighbor in the solar
system is lifeless, the discovery of microbes on Earth
that can exist in environments previously thought too
hostile has fuelled debate over extraterrestrial life.
Researchers had known these microbes could survive
for a long time without food but until now there was
little agreement on how long they could live, Willerslev said.
Knowing this, and eventually pinpointing the key to this
longevity, may also help scientists better understand
the ageing process, he added.
"It is interesting to see why some cells can survive
for a very long time," he said. "That can be a key
for understanding ageing."
From: "mark ford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:40:16 +0100
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ancient bacteria could point to life on Mars
Message: 14
>> "When it can live half a million years on Earth it makes it very
promising it could survive on Mars for a very long time," Willerslev
said. "Permafrost would be an excellent place to look for life on Mars."
Yeah but call be a cynic, but Surely half a million years on earth is
environmentally like half a decade on Mars!?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Sterling K. Webb
Sent: 28 August 2007 06:44
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ancient bacteria could point to life on Mars
Hi, All,
With the Phoenix Lander headed for Martian
permafrost territory, this is suddenly more interesting.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2733009920070827?feedType=RS
S&feedName=topNews&sp=true
Ancient bacteria could point to life on Mars: Study
LONDON (Reuters) - Ancient bacteria are able
to survive nearly half a million years in harsh,
frozen conditions, researchers said on Monday
in a study that adds to arguments that permafrost
environments on Mars could harbor life.
The findings also represent the oldest independently
authenticated DNA to date obtained from living
cells and could offer clues to better understand
ageing, said Eske Willerslev, a researcher at the
University of Copenhagen who led the study.
"When it can live half a million years on Earth it
makes it very promising it could survive on Mars
for a very long time," Willerslev said. "Permafrost
would be an excellent place to look for life on Mars."
The international team, which also included researchers
from the United States, Canada, Russia and Sweden,
tested the microbes living up to 10 meters deep in
permafrost collected from Northern Canada, the
Yukon, Siberia and Antarctica.
When a cell dies, its DNA fragments into pieces but
the samples the researchers studied were all very long
strands -- evidence the cells were able to continuously
repair genetic material and remain alive, said Willerslev,
whose findings were published in the Proceedings of
the Academy of Sciences.
"These cells are active cells repairing DNA to deal
with continuous degradation of the genomes, which
is the genetic material that is key to life," he said in
a telephone interview. "It is the same thing with humans."
The scientists do not yet know the mechanism driving
the continuous repair but Willerslev said the cells survived
by eating nutrients like nitrogen and phosphate lodged
in the permafrost.
This is interesting because the temperature on Mars is
much colder with more stable temperatures, representing
an even better environment to sustain this kind of life, he
added.
While most scientists think our neighbor in the solar
system is lifeless, the discovery of microbes on Earth
that can exist in environments previously thought too
hostile has fuelled debate over extraterrestrial life.
Researchers had known these microbes could survive
for a long time without food but until now there was
little agreement on how long they could live, Willerslev said.
Knowing this, and eventually pinpointing the key to this
longevity, may also help scientists better understand
the ageing process, he added.
"It is interesting to see why some cells can survive
for a very long time," he said. "That can be a key
for understanding ageing."
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