Dear Jeff, Philippe and Martin,
Thank you all for your contributions to this discussion regarding NWA 2828
EL3 (Aubrite?) and all of its pairings (named or otherwise). I can certainly
see where all of the confusion lays with this one, I was directly involved
from the beginning and was in Layounne myself. What I do not get is when a
scientist is offered supporting, or non-supporting data but completely
ignores it from the other scientists who have spend much time on it.
If this meteorite was a breccia and part of it appears to be an aubrite and
the other part(s) appear to be EL/3, can it be classified as an
"Aubrite/EL3-6" or something like that? If the name Al Haggnounia 001 has
been officially accepted for this material, shouldn't all of the NWA
assignments then also be called the same since scientific data (GPS, etc.)
were obtained?
I am only trying to understand this whole mess with this one. I have plenty
as well as many others so that is not the issue. This is one occurrence
where the world-wide classifying scientists need to cooperate with each
other and get it done. There is not a national pride issue going on, or at
least I do not think so. I know the US scientists offered the others the
data but it was refused for one reason or another. I do not think refusal of
help is any way to accomplish the end result here. This could very well be
one of the most important (or at least interesting) finds,
asreroidly-speaking.
Best regards,
Greg
====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AL HAGGOUNIA 001 ("NOT" AUBRITE)
Dear Greg and all,
It is not usual for me to participate in the debates because by experience
often these remain sterile and my level of English does not allow me to
make me understood completely.
Here is that I have to say as comment of this meteorite:
First, all the Moroccan having a relationship with the business of
meteorites know Al Haggounia's strewnfield (Western Sahara not Algeria)
for a long time before that you and I let us be
dealers of meteorites. At this time, nobody was certain that he can
involve a meteorite, the knowledge of Moroccan were not the one from now
and it is necessary to say that first sight
has it is not evident to recognize a meteorite in this material. The first
analyzed pieces and declared numbers were classified EL6, E6 and the first
one which has been classified as an
aubrite was the NWA 2736.
This classification launched a new rush on Al Haggounia, and hundreds of
kilos of this material met itself has Erfoud.
In April, 2006, when I met my Moroccan partner in Erfoud, he showed me
several hundreds of kilos of this material in bags which had just arrived
from Western Sahara. In these hundreds
of kilos, I chose carefully several kilos of all the representative parts
of this meteorite to give them later to Albert Jambon. As well as Fred
Beroud, Ali Hmani and Ait Ouzrou, who agreed
to make a common declaration rather than multiply the numbers NWA,
supplied a big quantity of material to Albert Jambon.
I think that Albert Jambon is the most qualified person to describe this
meteorite. Before subjecting his declaration he went up an expedition to
go on the spot in association with the
other French and Moroccan scientists. The strewnfield as described by
Albert Jambon and others scientists who participated in the expedition is
a classic strewnfield, an ellipse 40 km
long with the also classic distribution of the big and small pieces. On
the strewnfield the geologists make the dating of the ground and all the
analyses to describe the strewnfield. They
found themselves several pieces of this meteorite. In Laayoune, Albert
Jambon also saw several hundreds of kilos of this meteorite with Moroccan
involved in the search on the
strewnfield. What gives approximately 3 tons for this meteorite if we add
the various pairings.
There is no doubt, and I believe that everybody agrees, that all this
material NWA xxxx and Al Haggounia 001 with different results of analysis
is the same. It was classified EL6, E6,
aubrite, EL6 / 7, EL3... Three different laboratories have classified this
meteorite as an aubrite.
For the owners of a part of this meteorite which supplied the typical
sample has a scientist so that he made the analysis, there is no reason
for not believing the scientist in question
whom he has to trust in the quality of his work it is a question of
respect.
In this case, in which we are certain that it is about the same meteorite,
the various classifications raise naturally a problem. The important
weathering of this meteorite explains maybe
the difficulty of the determination.
To end, I think that no dealer can grant himself the right to say such
analysis is the good and such the other one is false and there is no
reason to say that the good analysis is EL3.
Best wishes,
Philippe
http://www.meteoritica.com/
Dear Frederic, Matteo and List Members,
"Al Haggounia 001"(NWA 4420), NWA 2828 and the other Fossil EL3's are NOT,
I repeat, NOT aubrites. I wish they were, I have many, many kilos of NWA
2828. At first when just the type
sample was tested, it came back as an aubrite, no chondrules were found.
After cutting more of the NWA 2828 material I had, I began to find these
funny round things and I thought, "Oh
no, these are chondrules, this can not be an aubrite". I then sent more
sample material in to have tested and sure enough, they WERE chondrules.
Unfortunately I had not cut the material
for sale until the classification and abstract were approved. After the
chondrules were found and confirmed by several US scientists, a revised
classification and abstract were submitted.
The abstract was approved, see here:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K but the NWA 2828
classification was not changed by the Meteoritical Society in the
bulletin (not sure why this is, any one out there who can address this?).
The classifying scientist who studied NWA 4420 "Al Haggounia", Dr. Jambon,
refused scientific data supporting the EL3 classification from the US
scientists and classified the sample he
had as an aubrite. This material IS THE SAME AS NWA 2828, the now infamous
EL3 Fossil (Paleo) meteorite! I do not know if "Al Haggnounia" is trying
to be wished into being an aubrite,
but IT IS NOT!!! Those who have sent Dr. Jambon sample material need to
send him and other scientists more samples that show the true makeup of
this meteorite. In other words, send
samples with those funny round things so the classification can be made
correctly. When new data and evidence is presented, it is up to the
dealers AND the scientists to do the right
thing.
To error is OK as long as a correction is made as in the case of NWA 2828,
hence the title of the revised abstract, "EL3 Chondrite (not Aubrite)
Northwest Africa 2828: An Unusual Paleo-
meteorite Occurring as Cobbles in a Terrestrial Conglomerate". See here:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K
I wish NWA 2828 was an aubrite, but an EL3 Fossil meteorite is pretty cool
too. Anyone want an excellent deal on some nice and clean NWA 2828 stones?
Respectfully,
Greg
====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
----- Original Message ----- From: "meteoriteshow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List Meteoritecentral"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - AL HAGGOUNIA 001 (AUBRITE)
Dear Listees,
Sorry, the links where cut in my previous post.
So please just find them (I hope this time uncut) hereunder:
1/ Al Haggounia 001 / Meteoritical Society:
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sfor=names&categ=Aubrites&mblist=92
2/ Al Haggounia 001 for sale on Meteoriteshow web site:
http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente-fra.htm#NWA4420
kind regards,
Frederic Beroud
IMCA #2491
www.meteoriteshow.com
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail.
Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
[email protected]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
